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Re: ZFS performance (was: Re: deduplicating file systems: VDO with Debian?)



On Thu, 2022-11-10 at 21:14 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> On 11/10/22 07:44, hw wrote:
> > On Wed, 2022-11-09 at 21:36 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> > > On 11/9/22 00:24, hw wrote:
> > >   > On Tue, 2022-11-08 at 17:30 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> 
> [...]
>
> > 
> Taking snapshots is fast and easy.  The challenge is deciding when to 
> destroy them.

That seems like an easy decision, just keep as many as you can and destroy the
ones you can't keep.

> [...]
> > > Without deduplication or compression, my backup set and 78 snapshots
> > > would require 3.5 TiB of storage.  With deduplication and compression,
> > > they require 86 GiB of storage.
> > 
> > Wow that's quite a difference!  What makes this difference, the compression
> > or
> > the deduplication? 
> 
> 
> Deduplication.

Hmm, that means that deduplication shrinks your data down to about 1/40 of it's
size.  That's an awesome rate.

> > When you have snapshots, you would store only the
> > differences from one snapshot to the next, 
> > and that would mean that there aren't
> > so many duplicates that could be deduplicated.
> 
> 
> I do not know -- I have not crawled the ZFS code; I just use it.

Well, it's like a miracle :)

> > > Users can recover their own files without needing help from a system
> > > administrator.
> > 
> > You have users who know how to get files out of snapshots?
> 
> 
> Not really; but the feature is there.

That means you're still the one to get the files.

> [...]
> > 
> > 
> > > What were the makes and models of the 6 disks?  Of the SSD's?  If you
> > > have a 'zpool status' console session from then, please post it.
> > 
> > They were (and still are) 6x4TB WD Red (though one or two have failed over
> > time)
> > and two Samsung 850 PRO, IIRC.  I don't have an old session anymore.
> > 
> > These WD Red are slow to begin with.  IIRC, both SDDs failed and I removed
> > them.
> > 
> > The other instance didn't use SSDs but 6x2TB HGST Ultrastar.  Those aren't
> > exactly slow but ZFS is slow.
> 
> 
> Those HDD's should be fine with ZFS; but those SSD's are desktop drives, 
> not cache devices.  That said, I am making the same mistake with Intel 
> SSD 520 Series.  I have considered switching to one Intel Optane Memory 
> Series and a PCIe 4x adapter card in each server.

Isn't that very expensinve and wears out just as well?  Wouldn't it be better to
have the cache in RAM?


> Please run and post the relevant command for LVM, btrfs, whatever.

Well, what would that tell you?

> [...]
> > 
> > > What is the make and model of your controller cards?
> > 
> > They're HP smart array P410.  FreeBSD doesn't seem to support those.
> 
> 
> I use the LSI 9207-8i with "IT Mode" firmware (e.g. host bus adapter, 
> not RAID):

Well, I couldn't get those when I wanted them.  Since I didn't plan on using
ZFS, the P410s have to do.

> [...]
> > ... the data to back up is mostly (or even all) on btrfs. ... copy the
> > files over with rsync.  ...
> > the data comes from different machines and all backs up to one volume.
> 
> 
> I suggest creating a ZFS pool with a mirror vdev of two HDD's.

That would be way too small.

>   If you 
> can get past your dislike of SSD's,

I don't dislike them.  I'm using them where they give me advantages, and I don't
use them where they would give me disadvantages.

>  add a mirror of two SSD's as a 
> dedicated dedup vdev.  (These will not see the hard usage that cache 
> devices get.)

I think I have 2x80GB SSDs that are currently not in use.

>   Create a filesystem 'backup'.  Create child filesystems, 
> one for each host.  Create grandchild filesystems, one for the root 
> filesystem on each host.

Huh?  What's with these relationships?

>   Set up daily rsync backups of the root 
> filesystems on the various hosts to the ZFS grandchild filesystems.  Set 
> up zfs-auto-snapshot to take daily snapshots of everything, and retain 
> 10 snapshots.  Then watch what happens.

What do you expect to happen?  I'm thinking about changing my backup sever ... 
In any case, I need to do more homework first.


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