On 2021-08-19 9:04 a.m., Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Thu, 2021-08-19 at 07:23 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: >> I've been subscribed to this list for a long time and I've seen a >> change in how it is being used, which I think is harmful to its core >> purpose > > 100% agree. I'm another long time subscriber here and this is just > bonkers lately. The noise has surpassed the signal for at least the > last 6 months. Trying times perhaps, but geeze this is not a good image > to present to new Debian users. I totally agree but can't say for the six months as I've been on the list for only 4 months. One thing I can agree is that it sends a bad image to new Debian users, even more when we tell them rudely that they are going against a specific rule. Not everyone will take the time to read the FAQ and guidelines entirely before subscribing. In a ideal world, we'd all read the guidelines, FAQ and all the documents before joining this list. But it's not what's happening and it will never be. Still, this doesn't justify being rude or lacking consideration for new comers. I've been on mailing list before but that was 10 years ago and those we're only local ones we created for the university. Some rules developed by itself. So when someone told be in a really direct manner and without more explanation "no top posting", I didn't really understand what he meant until I did a search for the term. I understood easily what it was, because we had this rule but hadn't named it, we just explained it. Yes it's easier when someone ask about "Devuan" to tell him in a quick say "Go away", but is this really helpful ? I doubt... What does it take as a time to explain why it may not be the best place for this question ain't that much. Because this person asked the question in good faith and we have to respect him. It may be a nice acronym RTFM but it's far from being polite. The world has changed and so does the user on this list. Some people may say "I've been on this list for 20 years, was better before". Yes it was different before but those are changes that goes with the fact that now Linux is more democratic. Some distribution made good publicity (I think of Ubuntu) and this made more people start using Linux, even ones that weren't system admins or that weren't forced to use a Unix/Linux system to run some specific application or services. And Debian itself got easier to use, with a widespread support for most common hardware on the x86/x64 platform. Wasn't the goal of all this to get new users to Debian ? Don't we want as much user as possible to use Debian ? So that they can also test the software we all use and give us feedback, even discover bugs that didn't pop up at us ? We can't expect all those new users to be Cisco certified network administrator or to have a master degree in computer science, being able to write in assembly language, C/C++/Fortran and some Lisp too. We have to accept those new users and remember that we also asked question that seem stupid for others and we also asked question that the answer we're in the first page of the manual. If we can look at ourselves and that's not something that everyone seems able to do. Or we can join the club of all the people nostalgic of the soviet union and the 1970s and dream of the cold war but if we do so then we must also go back using a 1200 baud modem and a teletype. > > -Jim P. > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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