Michael Biebl wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 01:52 schrieb Miles Fidelman:Don Armstrong wrote:On Mon, 10 Nov 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a way that systemd is never installed, thus avoiding any potential problems that might result from later uninstallation all the dependencies that systemd brings in with it.If you think there are problems, please test this. If there are problems with the late command, they are bugs, and they can be filed and fixed early in the jessie freeze. From the testing I've done, this works just fine, and switches init systems correctly.Frankly. No.So you admit that you don't actually experienced any actual problems and you are just asserting it?
Actually, that's not what I said. I responded to an assertion that there is a way to do a clean install of systemvinit on Jessie - by pointing to a documented bug (#668001). Which, by the way, also prevents doing a clean install of systemd into Wheezy, and the original bug report complains about how difficult that made it to test systemd.
I expressed a judgement that, based on experience, there are potential problems with installing and then uninstalling a piece of software with complicated dependencies, that would be avoided by doing a clean install. I did NOT say that I'd tested that for the specific case of systemd and sysvinit in Jessie.
I have also concluded, based on experience that, and reading enough bug reports and installation reports, that: - systemd does not add any capabilities that we need for our operational systems - systemd is likely to require extensive rewriting and reconfiguring of the init plumbing for our servers (no, I'm not going to let systemd bring up disk mirroring, high-availability clustering, filesystems, and our virtual machine stack in some automagic parallel way -- I WANT this to be sequential, and carefully managed) - systemd still seems awfully buggy and causing problems for people (the word unstable comes to mind) - there is no way to build a Jessie system that is a clean upgrade from our current system (by clean, one that doesn't involve installing and then uninstalling a lot of stuff that we don't need)
From which, I've made a judgement call that Jessie is nowhere near ready for prime time, for our applications, and that what time I have for testing things is better invested in testing alternatives.
Thanks for being so blunt.
You're welcome. Miles Fidelman