Re: Challenge to you: Voice your concerns regarding systemd upstream
Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> writes:
> Am Samstag, 27. September 2014, 22:13:21 schrieb lee:
>> Martin Steigerwald <Martin@lichtvoll.de> writes:
>> > Am Freitag, 26. September 2014, 10:43:14 schrieb Andrei POPESCU:
>> >> On Vi, 26 sep 14, 01:58:44, lee wrote:
>> >> > Again, I consider it to be totally futile to try to convince the makers
>> >> > of systemd to fix the issues it brings about. They cannot be unaware
>> >> > of
>> >> > them, so obviously they don't want to fix them. I've seen for myself
>> >> > that they don't want to fix even little bugs which would be easy to fix
>> >> > from the bug report I made about their misunderstanding of what
>> >> > "disabled" means.
>> >>
>> >> Could you please provide a link to that?
>> >
>> > Lee´s comments like this completely prove to me that Lee does not want any
>> > change from status quo.
>>
>> Your assumption is wrong. I appreciate change for the better, not for
>> the worse, and in case of systemd, I don't believe that there is any way
>> to change anything about it.
>
> So you just complain here over and over again to vent your frustration?
I'm merely participating in the discussion and haven't entirely made up
my mind what the issue actually is and what I should do. Systemd is
working fine here ever since I'm using Fedora, which is since F17.
Since then I have *never* had a freeze or crash of the system caused by
buggy software, which is unprecedented in this way.
Debian already lost me (after over 15 years) when they came up with
their brokenarch and left users stranded with no possible fix for the
things they broke. The only reason I'm here is because I have it
running on my server, and the only reason I have it on my server is
because it was the only distribution of those I tried with which I could
get xen to work. I really didn't want to use Debian.
I also need to replace Fedora with something else because my experience
is that the makers of Fedora act like Nazis. Besides that I don't want
to have any part of their attitude, it's a recipe for future problems
the same way as Debian is.
Systemd is merely another annoying player in the mess. Finally, I have
gathered that it actually has some advantages besides its disadvantages.
I can see it working fine every day with no problems whatsoever. The
things I personally don't like about it are not all too important.
So what should I do? My server is running fine, so I can sit things out
for quite a while, or until it doesn't. My desktop is working fine, so
I'm in no hurry to replace Fedora. I might give Gentoo a try next
weekend, though they'll probably also switch to systemd sooner or
later. Besides, I have a long list of other things to do.
> If you do not believe systemd upstream is willing to help with the change you
> want to see, there are endless other ways to help to facilitate changes. I
> listed some here in other posts: Organize a vote and present result to
> upstream developers,
I suggested doing this here and was told that there's no point in doing
it. It's probably true, yet I might still do that just for curiosity.
> install systemd-shim and cgmanager and test it, install init-select
> and test it, install openrc and test it, help systembsd people, help
> packaging it for Debian once ready or help find a packager… start
> affirming daily for changes to happen and… and… and…
This is all Debian specific, and Debian is deprecated. I don't have a
solution to fixing Debians' issues or to systemd having taken over, and I
don't see any reason to jump to blind activism. The best course of
action seems to be to observe while sitting things out and to try to not
be affected by whatever explosion will sooner or later occur.
> And no, I don´t want to hear rationalizations why none of my suggestion can
> work at all. This is still free software, this is still open source, this is
> still forkable, there are *tons* of option for helping change.
>
> Maybe some my not be as comfortable as you wish… but helping with change often
> needs *some* effort.
When I have a good idea for something to do, I might just do it.
>> Go ahead and prove me wrong.
>
> Why? Why do think I would waste my own time like this?
So I take it that you don't want change. Why do you think I would waste
my own time with fighting windmills, knowing that I cannot win?
> I decided to give systemd a chance on my systems and see what this brings me.
> I decided for a practical approach. And so far the systems I installed it on
> didn´t explode or anything like this.
See.
It would be much easier if systemd didn't work at all. Still systemd
not working wouldn't fix Debians' issues.
When you look at [1], you even find people claiming that there has been
a takeover of Debian and an abuse of the technical committee, and that
silencing of people questioning systemd and Debians' ways is going on.
[1]: http://www.debianuserforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=3031
--
Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power.
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