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Re: Replacement for dspam

Le 18/07/2014 21:06, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 20:26:57 schrieb Erwan David:
>> Le 18/07/2014 19:56, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
>>> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 18:03:20 schrieb Erwan David:
>>>> Le 18/07/2014 14:10, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
>>>>> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 13:55:43 schrieb Erwan David:
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 01:45:55PM CEST, Martin Steigerwald
>>>>> <Martin@lichtvoll.de> said:
>>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>>> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 12:10:44 schrieb Jonathan Dowland:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:26:56PM +0200, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ok, I already fail at the first step: call crm114 from Postfix so
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> it uses user-specific spam/ham CSS files. My web search suggests
>>>>>>>>> nobody
>>>>>>>>> has ever done that before. I don't use procmail but Dovecot's LDA
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> mail sorting which doesn't allow to call external programs. There is
>>>>>>>>> sieve_extprograms but that looks a little weird to me.
>>>>>>>> I've never tried that, I'd be interested to see it working. I use
>>>>>>>> procmail
>>>>>>>> for local users who have their own CSS files. I did once look at
>>>>>>>> http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/Projects/crm114-spamd which provides
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> spamd-like interface to crm114, but I didn't go live with it. For
>>>>>>>> SMTP-time
>>>>>>>> rejection you will need CSS files shared across all recipients.
>>>>>>> For a long time I used CRM114 integrated in KMail with a POP3 account
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can say that CRM114 is exceptionally good at detecting spam. To the
>>>>>>> extent
>>>>>>> that spam just has been a non-issue for me. I am not using this at the
>>>>>>> moment cause I had severe mail loss with Akonadi based KMail and
>>>>>>> CRM114
>>>>>>> filter rules. This may have been fixed meanwhile but I didn´t try
>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>> and having tried once. So I just weed out spam manually which works
>>>>>>> okay
>>>>>>> cause policyd-weight catches most of them on the server already.
>>>>>>> I am currently in the process of setting up my Postfix + Dovecot
>>>>>>> installation with IMAP additionally to POP3.
>>>>>>> I already have IMAP working, route all mail to me to POP3 + IMAP
>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>> (with different users) and got managesieve working so I can edit
>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>> rules on IMAP server with newest KMail.
>>>>>>> Next step is to install dovecot-antispam and integrate it with CRM114
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the server. Either with a copy of my existing CRM114 installation on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> laptop or with a new setup.
>>>>>>> I didn´t complete this yet. I think it can work quite well.
>>>>>> Did you find the tutorial foir integrating postfix and crm114 ?
>>>>>> On crm114 it is mentioned with a link to the "add-ons" page of postfix
>>>>>> doc, whioch in turn has a link to crm114 main page...
>>>>>> I could not find whether crm114 is used with lmtp (as I used dspam),
>>>>>> or as a milter, or another way.
>>>>> Since CRM114 requires learning I´d use dovecot-antispam plugin (debian
>>>>> package is available). It automatically learns from anything one puts
>>>>> into spam folder and sports an unsure folder as well.
>>>>> But as I didn´t do it yet, I don´t know the details.
>>>> That's the learning part, however there is also the distribution part :
>>>> is the email tagged ? How is the email transmitted by postfix to crm114,
>>>> and how is it transmitted to dovecot LDA ?
>>>> crm114 page does not even address those basic email settings, I did not
>>>> even see a command name on it, or a daemon or any thing...
>>>> What is the storage backend for the learned data ?
>>> crm114 is not just for mail. Its for any kind of textual data that one can
>>> through regular expressions at.
>> Yes, that's what I understood, but for me I only need email bayesian
>> filtering.
>>> I suggest reading through docs of dovecot-antispam.
>> I already use it. dovecot-antispam does NOT filter email. I use postfix
>> -> dspam -> dovecot LDA all communicating through lmtp. Users have a web
>> interface to check filtered spam and can ask for delivery of false
>> positive. Dovecot anti-spam is used to retrain *after* delivery, I want
>> on server classification before delivery.
> Hmmm. Actually I think I won´t care as long as it sorts spam into spam folder 
> and unsure into unsure folder and I can put unsure into a good folder so it 
> gets filtered with managesieve again.
> Dunno whether thats possible. Moving to IMAP is low priority here. And a lot 
> of work. I almost got most mailing lists sorted by sieve, but its still some 
> work left, especially with the antispam stuff.
>>>  I use dovecot lda within
>>> postfix already for sieve.
>> And what do you use in sieve to put spam somewhere specific ? How do you
>> allow users to retrieve false positive ?
> As I wrote, I *didn´t* yet setup any spam filtering except policyd-weight which 
> denies on SMTP level.
>>> I didn´t do it, but from a short contact with the author of the plugin, I
>>> got the impression that would be all I need (except Dovecot and CRM114
>>> that is).
>>> CRM114 uses two 12 MiB files which it mmap()s for best performance. At
>>> least thats what my setup uses. I described basic setup for mail in Linux
>>> User article (in german) and I think this was one of those which got
>>> translated into english for Linux Magazine. Although it described
>>> integrating CRM114 with KMail the basic setup of CRM114 should be the
>>> same or similar. Both articles should be online freely since they are
>>> older than a year.
>> This does not seem to scale well with different spam/ham token set per user.
> Huh? Just copy the CRM114 folder to another home and empty the spam/ham token 
> files?

In my setup there are no home dir, no users on server.  spam
classification must happen before delivery, and spam must not be
rejected by put somewhere where the user may retrieve it. Losing one
legitimate mail is not an option.
Everything runs under same uid, the one of email managing account on

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