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Re: Replacement for dspam

Le 18/07/2014 19:56, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 18:03:20 schrieb Erwan David:
>> Le 18/07/2014 14:10, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
>>> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 13:55:43 schrieb Erwan David:
>>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 01:45:55PM CEST, Martin Steigerwald
>>> <Martin@lichtvoll.de> said:
>>>>> Hello!
>>>>> Am Freitag, 18. Juli 2014, 12:10:44 schrieb Jonathan Dowland:
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:26:56PM +0200, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>>>>>>> Ok, I already fail at the first step: call crm114 from Postfix so that
>>>>>>> it uses user-specific spam/ham CSS files. My web search suggests
>>>>>>> nobody
>>>>>>> has ever done that before. I don't use procmail but Dovecot's LDA for
>>>>>>> mail sorting which doesn't allow to call external programs. There is
>>>>>>> sieve_extprograms but that looks a little weird to me.
>>>>>> I've never tried that, I'd be interested to see it working. I use
>>>>>> procmail
>>>>>> for local users who have their own CSS files. I did once look at
>>>>>> http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/Projects/crm114-spamd which provides a
>>>>>> spamd-like interface to crm114, but I didn't go live with it. For
>>>>>> SMTP-time
>>>>>> rejection you will need CSS files shared across all recipients.
>>>>> For a long time I used CRM114 integrated in KMail with a POP3 account
>>>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>> can say that CRM114 is exceptionally good at detecting spam. To the
>>>>> extent
>>>>> that spam just has been a non-issue for me. I am not using this at the
>>>>> moment cause I had severe mail loss with Akonadi based KMail and CRM114
>>>>> filter rules. This may have been fixed meanwhile but I didn´t try again
>>>>> and having tried once. So I just weed out spam manually which works okay
>>>>> cause policyd-weight catches most of them on the server already.
>>>>> I am currently in the process of setting up my Postfix + Dovecot
>>>>> installation with IMAP additionally to POP3.
>>>>> I already have IMAP working, route all mail to me to POP3 + IMAP account
>>>>> (with different users) and got managesieve working so I can edit filter
>>>>> rules on IMAP server with newest KMail.
>>>>> Next step is to install dovecot-antispam and integrate it with CRM114 on
>>>>> the server. Either with a copy of my existing CRM114 installation on the
>>>>> laptop or with a new setup.
>>>>> I didn´t complete this yet. I think it can work quite well.
>>>> Did you find the tutorial foir integrating postfix and crm114 ?
>>>> On crm114 it is mentioned with a link to the "add-ons" page of postfix
>>>> doc, whioch in turn has a link to crm114 main page...
>>>> I could not find whether crm114 is used with lmtp (as I used dspam),
>>>> or as a milter, or another way.
>>> Since CRM114 requires learning I´d use dovecot-antispam plugin (debian
>>> package is available). It automatically learns from anything one puts
>>> into spam folder and sports an unsure folder as well.
>>> But as I didn´t do it yet, I don´t know the details.
>> That's the learning part, however there is also the distribution part :
>> is the email tagged ? How is the email transmitted by postfix to crm114,
>> and how is it transmitted to dovecot LDA ?
>> crm114 page does not even address those basic email settings, I did not
>> even see a command name on it, or a daemon or any thing...
>> What is the storage backend for the learned data ?
> crm114 is not just for mail. Its for any kind of textual data that one can 
> through regular expressions at.

Yes, that's what I understood, but for me I only need email bayesian

> I suggest reading through docs of dovecot-antispam.

I already use it. dovecot-antispam does NOT filter email. I use postfix
-> dspam -> dovecot LDA all communicating through lmtp. Users have a web
interface to check filtered spam and can ask for delivery of false
positive. Dovecot anti-spam is used to retrain *after* delivery, I want
on server classification before delivery.

>  I use dovecot lda within 
> postfix already for sieve.

And what do you use in sieve to put spam somewhere specific ? How do you
allow users to retrieve false positive ?

> I could speculate how its done, but I really suggest just reading up any 
> documentation of dovecot-antispam.

Which does not handle at all the before delivery filtering part, it is
not it's job.
> I didn´t do it, but from a short contact with the author of the plugin, I got 
> the impression that would be all I need (except Dovecot and CRM114 that is).
> CRM114 uses two 12 MiB files which it mmap()s for best performance. At least 
> thats what my setup uses. I described basic setup for mail in Linux User 
> article (in german) and I think this was one of those which got translated 
> into english for Linux Magazine. Although it described integrating CRM114 with 
> KMail the basic setup of CRM114 should be the same or similar. Both articles 
> should be online freely since they are older than a year.

This does not seem to scale well with different spam/ham token set per user.
> And I think I even based this article on some doc on the mailreaver.crm stuff. 
> I think it is described in crm114 package somewhere.

I usually prefer reading doc before installing, but I made an exception
: it seems to me useful only for a full geek user, each user needs to
learn a complicated language,  need access to server file system : it
canit work for me, where only access from users are managesieve (and
often only through roundcube sieve frontend) and imap.

And I want per user spam/ham token sets, generic sets just do not work

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