Re: Thinking about using Debian
* On 2013 27 Feb 02:55 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> The Xubuntu desktop GUI is XFCE and XFCE is available in Debian too. :-)
I know, as my main desktop and this laptop both run Sid with XFCE.
> It isn't heresy. But Ubuntu and Debian have different goals and
> priorities. Debian as an organization has decided only to include
> free(dom) software in the distribution and therefore does not include
> the nonfree drivers that Ubuntu includes. If those drivers were
> licensed with a free(dom) license then Debian would include them too.
> It is a political philosophy thing.
I do enable the non-free repository. Why? It's not because I'm
particularly fond of the idea but I do want a functional system. On the
previous laptop with an Atheros chipset, non-free was not needed for
WiFi, but on this T-410 non-free is needed for the Intel Centrino
Advanced-N 6200. No WiFi is a no-go in my world.
I also enable it as I need access to the GNU GFDL documentation that has
been placed there as I need to work from the Debian specific versions of
the documentation since as of right now, even on Sid, various tools lag
the latest GNU releases. The online GNU docs, being newer, don't
reflect the true capabilities of the tools I'm using. Of course, I
could download the relevant GNU source tarballs and build the
documentation locally. Then whose philosophy am I adhering to, Debian's
or GNU's? ;-)
> However within each organization it isn't a single mind. There are
> some who want to do one thing and others who want to do a different
> thing. Debian's GR says no nonfree software and so as an organization
> it does not. But there are many who would like to include it in order
> that users don't feel any pain from needing nonfree parts.
And I appreciate that Debian has recognized the need for pragmatism
while striving for as broad of a freedom base as possible.
> Do you sell a little bit of your soul to make it easy? Or do you
> stick to your principles and stay pure? Hard questions with no easy
> answers.
As my initials are not RMS, I can live with some pragmatism even though
I advocate, prefer, write, and release Free Software. Also, avoiding
the "non-free" section is not a panacea. As noted above, certain GFDL
documentation is there which GNU/FSF clearly advocate as "Free
Software".
> I think the current Debian (keyboard) installer is first rate. But as
> I understand it the Wheezy installer will release using the (mouse)
> graphical installer as the default installer. Which as far as I can
> see is very similar to the Ubuntu (mouse) graphical installer. Which
> I don't like. Fortunately the keyboard installer remains available in
> both.
I installed Wheezy on this laptop using the GUI installer and it worked
fine. I have no argument against it and my praise for the Xubuntu
installer is not a slight against Debian's or anyone else's for that
matter. I will suggest that disk partitioning may be more intuitive on
the Xubuntu installer than with Debian's GUI. Disk partitioning, except
on a fresh drive, is always a "know what you're doing" endeavor, but
I've been doing it since my first Slackware 3.0 install in 1996
(replaced a short time later by Slack '96) and have a pretty good track
record, or have been lucky! :-D
> Since you like the Ubuntu graphical installer you should try the
> Debian graphical installer. I think you will find them very similar
> to each other.
Remember, the OP has a decided negative view of Linux and distributions
so I was merely offering something that has a high percentage of Libre
while offering enough pragmatism to get him going with a high
probability of success on the first try.
Of course my message left you without any indication that I am familiar
with both installers.
> That is a very valid point. The mozilla.debian.net folks do a great
> job but I wish it were included in the main repository. That this
> needs to be enabled separately is less than newbie friendly. Even
> though it is very easy to use after you have done it.
>
> I wish Debian would put Internet facing software such as Firefox and
> Chromium and so forth that by external policy cannot remain stable
> into the volatile ("stable-updates") category and have a continuously
> usable upgrade track for those specific components. Perhaps one day
> they will.
Again, the goal of my message was to offer the OP an excellent
alternative to increase his comfort level so that he may gain enough
confidence to then investigate in the future. I did not intend to
promote an "either or" situation for all time, just a distro I am
familiar with that may offer what he has yet to find.
I think that from a pragmatic Xubuntu start he can then dig deeper as he
wants to learn the underlying "Debian way" and make the jump at some
future date.
- Nate
--
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
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