Re: Thinking about using Debian
On 2/25/2013 6:35 PM, Mark Filipak wrote:
Hi Chris,
Are you a fan of Shakespeare tragedies? I think Linux is a good subject.
It's so hard to comment constructively without seeming to bitch. It's a
tragedy.
I'm an electronics engineer technoweenie with over 3 decades of
experience with such a wide range of
mainframes/minicomputers/microcomputers it would make your head spin. If
ever there was a customer for Linux, I would be it.
A relative neophyte. I've got almost 50% more experience.
Linux scares the crap out of me. Windows has its problems, but they're
known problems and I have decades of experience with them. I use
applications, not operating systems. Linux and Mac users put Windoze
down a lot, but they do a lot of lying in an attempt to hide problems
with those OSes and that's what scares me... that, and the knowledge
that, because it's free, people who could help, won't (or bail out at
the first sign of trouble)... and because it's free, complaints and/or
suggestions seem like bitching and no one likes to listen to someone bitch.
Anything new is scary. There is always the desire to stick with what's
comfortable and not move on to new things.
I don't see any "lying in an attempt to hide problems". Rather, I see a
much greater degree of openness with problems in Linux than Windows.
Also, I've found much more (and better quality) help in Linux than
Windows. Ever tried to report a real bug to Microsoft Support, for
instance? An exercise in *extreme futility*.
"Paid" does not necessarily mean "well supported". Often times it mean
"We might get around to fixing your problem if enough people bitch so
that we can't ignore it any more".
So what am I doing? I'm bitching. Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Yes, you're bitching because you don't know any better.
I despair.
I have a Dell Precision M90. It's not listed as candidate hardware for
Debian (http://tuxmobil.org/dell.html). But I know what hardware is in
the M90. I know the video chip. I know the CPU. I know the bridge chip
used.
If I go to Intel or Nvidia or Ricoh and find drivers for the chips that
claim to be Linux drivers, will they work for Debian?
I don't use Dell, so I couldn't tell you.
What if I don't find Linux drivers at the chip-manufacturer sites? Then
what? If I invest months learning the care and feeding of Debian to the
point where I can be comfortably secure with it and can advise others,
will I be able to maintain that level next year when Debian is different?
There is also a very good chance there are drivers built into Debian
already. But as I said - I don't use Dell (I prefer better quality), so
I don't know.
I could just try it and see, but that could eat a lot of my time and I
don't have the time to waste.
If you don't have time to spend on something, then I suggest you stick
with what you know. Any new OS is going to take a lot of time to learn
- much more than just trying to find the appropriate drivers.
I won't go past WinXP. The latest versions of MS-Windows don't enforce
interface standards at all. Even in later WinXP applications, some
programs are almost impossible to figure out how to use. Some don't even
have menus!
Then you'll soon be out of date.
What's Debian going to be like? It's an OS with no GUI-cops at all. No
one wants to do anything standard ...it's boring and you can't bore
volunteer programers and keep them as volunteers. Look at Firefox and
Thunderbird. They're getting harder and harder to use by the day. Why?
Because no one is enforcing interface standards. But you can't say
anything without someone else throwing "What do you want for free?" in
your face.
You're looking for reasons to bitch. Firefox and Thunderbird are not
Debian, amongst other things.
Also, my experience with Firebox and Thunderbird may advise against
Debian. In my opinion, success is everything. And success is a lot
easier when you keep things simple. Firefox and Thunderbird are not
simple. They are overly complex and are becoming less reliable quickly,
but one can't even talk with the developers. They are in a world of
their own. And who can blame them? They're doing what they want and you
can't criticize because they're not getting paid. So I should just shut up.
OK, your experience with Yugos was bad, so you're swearing off motorized
vehicles all together. That's what you're saying.
That's why I'm lurking the Debian list ...to see what people's attitudes
are. To see whether the developers are accessible.
The debian users list is generally not where the developers are. Debian
is a version of Linux, and Linux has a lot of different packages. Don't
expect package developers to be here. Just like I wouldn't expect Adobe
developers to be in a Microsoft support group.
I tried to get involved fixing the PAM authorization stack architecture
for my server. I got absolutely nowhere because the developers of PAM
didn't want to talk with anyone who wasn't willing to write and compile
code. Will Debian be any different?
Debian is a way of packaging. If you want to change the PAM processing,
you need to deal with the PAM developers. Just like if you want to
change any package on Windows you need to deal with the package
developers on Windows.
Do you know of any very-experienced Debian folks who speak truths and
wouldn't mind holding my hand? (and who maybe won't be put off by a
little bitching?)
I know of a lot of very experienced Debian folks, but none who are
willing to provide the level of support you want for free.
Ciao - Mark (who spent 2 very pleasant months in NZ in the mid-80s, but
decided that the Hutt Valley was not enough like Silicon Valley).
P.S. Please don't top post. Thanks.
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