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Re: Very slim Desktop Manager

First of all, since I have exausted for the moment my time to discuss
matters on debian-user, this answer will be sketcky and perhaps too
brutal (or even rude) and it is surely my last one for some weeks at
least. I am sorry and apologize. 

Sincere thanks to _all_ people on the list.

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 05:05:17AM -0600, lee wrote:
> > As I said, I never used any spreadsheet (or word processor, for that
> > matter).
> Well, I tried it and found it has too many disadvantages.

As I said, the worst of its disavantages would be for me its being a
spreadsheet at all.
> don't have a framebuffer (but I'll recompile the kernel and try it out),
> so they probably won't work anyway.

bmv uses svgalib, not framabuffer. And in any case I am not suggesting
you to try it.
> That's what I said earlier: It's easier just to use a readily
> available pdf viewer

I perfectly understand that _FOR YOU_ it is esasier, and I am trying to
repeat endlessy that for people like you I have nothing really useful to

> When I started using Linux, there was no such thing as a framebuffer or
> svgalib

I am glad to know that you used linux well before 

   Linkname: linux-svgalib: Re: Quake/MS Intellimouse/SVGAlib problem
        URL: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/svgalib/hypermail/1995/0081.html

> They can be very useful.

as always, the fact that they are not useful for me and that I am not
minimally interested in them does *not* imply that I think "all persons
using them are evil, stupid, whatever, and should be exterminated"
> With dc or bc, you need to figure out how to use them. An hour later or
> so you might be able to calculate 2+5

$ echo "2+5"|bc

$ bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.

As I have already said many times, it is quite evident that we have
quite different habits, opinions, needs, whatever and for this reason
unfortunately I have nothing really useful to suggest to you.

> Sure it works, but it's not feasible to spend hours

I am happy to see that you can undestand why I will never be interseted
in GUI programs.

> You could as well question using a computer at all.

Yes, and if you can read (or translate) italian you will see that I
question this in every mail of mine, in the signature.

> The point is, that's how things are today.

Exactly, the things today (and not only today) are NOT good and nobody
will stop me from saying this simple truth

> > PS/2: gnuplot has also svgalib output.
> So? You can't reasonably replace a spreadsheet with bc or dc and
> gnuplot.

I am sorry that the context (calculator, not spreadsheet)  was not
sufficiently clear.

> > I have now found with google that there are image manipulations
> > programs for dos (http://www.opus.co.tt/dave/indexall.htm lists some
> > of them). Even a gpl one [vp386], which unfortunately uses dos4gw and
> > so it should not work under dosemu.
> How many of them don't have some kind of GUI? How many of them can work
> with NEF files?

if you are interested, I think that you can figure out yourself. I do
not use image manipulation programs, and unfortunately I have no more
time to check out.
> BTW, are you really still using dosemu?

Yes.  For example, it is the only way I have to use an excellent
parallel port midi inteface (menote/2). Or a very good text based now
freeware midi sequencer for dos.

> It's like playing a piano without hands: You can find another way, but
> it won't work as well.

Very nice expression. Do you release it under GPL, or some other free
> Yeah --- I tried screen, it's really nice. Maybe I'll set it up for
> IMAP use once I got a framebuffer; I might end up with something very
> efficient.

I do not think it will be more efficent in comparation to the way you
have now, but in any case I do not undestand the connection between
screen and IMAP.
> If links2 can display graphics on the console,

yes, both in framebuffer mode (which you do not have at the moment) and
in svgalib mode

> I might be able to use it.

that depends also on other things, such as javascript and so on.

> > > You can't even scroll,
> > 
> > What is scroll? If it is the horizontal analogue of Ctrl-n and Ctrl-p 
> > the you can enable it in lynx (first, turn word wrap off).
> I don't know what Ctrl-n/p would do.

try them, they are not dangerous

> BTW, I've just found an interesting font for xterm:
> -*-fixed-medium-r-*-*-24-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-* 
> It reminds me of console fonts

yes, and I have alredy posted in another mail in this thread
configurations of terminals using them.

> > lynx is like many unixes and many humans: it selectively choses its
> > friends.
> Is it a web browser or not?


> If it's a web browser, it should be able to
> display most web pages in such a way that they are easy to read and to
> use, as long as those pages don't violate standards.

it does for me (at least for the pages I am interested in, but I cannot
check _all_ existing pages in the web)

> I'm not sure what you mean? I don't remember any way to mark and copy
> something in a fullscreen dosbox and then paste it into a GUI program
> under windoze before 2000.

Alt-Enter and you have a window, then cut and paste as usual. This works
for both the dos subsystem and the win32 console subsystem.

> SFU?

Services For Unix. Using the posix subsystem of NT. MS has a web page
where you can download them and the documentation and so on. They might
already be integrated in vista, I do not know.
> The problem with cygwin is, hm, to put it simply, that everything is
> missing. Moreover, if you really want to use it, you have to fumble
> with filenames that have spaces and the chaotic disorganization of the
> files on computers running windoze. They spread the files all over the
> place so that you never know where to find anything, and every program
> that wants to messes with system files and/or mingles its own files
> between them as much as it wants. It's impossible to keep the system
> separated from applications and data. It's horrible ...

Well, I do not see what cygwin is missing in this description of the
problems. You are saing that with it you can face some of the
"interesting" features of windows and windoes users. 

It is quite surprising your non-use of locate, find ... -print0|xargs -0
... and so on.
> I'll reinstall to switch to ia64.

Nice. So you can even consider the only serious, sufficiently general
pourpose, existing proprietary system (VMS) with a hobbist licence and
available source code.

> handle. If the chips are not good, the electrical signals are not as
> steep (or whatever) as they should be, which results in a "softened out"
> picture, most noticeable in the contours of things. It's very
> noticeable with fonts, they will appear blurred, and afair you are
> also losing contrast. The higher the resolution, the higher the
> frequencies and the more bandwidth is required, and the cheap chips
> have their problems with that. It's not (so much) a problem in textmode
> because the frequencies and bandwidth are lower --- something like that.

I always suspected a problem also with refreshing frequencies
Many _Many_ MANY thanks again to all.

Chi usa software non libero avvelena anche te. Digli di smettere.
Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti letale.
Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci credono.

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