On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 05:31:22PM -0800, Michael M. wrote: > > No, Roberto, I never said "atheists are somehow superior" to anyone. I But you certainly implied it. > made an observation about a characteristic much more common to theists > than to atheists: certainty. You claimed, by insinuation, that > atheists somehow feel they are in control of the world. I think that's I did not insinuate anything. I simply stated a fact of human nature. I have met plenty Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc who all thought they were in control of their own respective worlds. That does not in any way mean that they really are. > invalid. Atheists, by definition, don't believe in any mechanisms of > control beyond the observable, testable laws of nature. Anything else > is theory or speculation, and any such theory or speculation may or may > not be demonstrably true via experimentation and more observation, now > or in the future. That's not a recipe for "control" -- it's a recipe > for inquiry. > I'm sorry. I was talking about people's perceptions of power. Not about our ability to physically effect change in the world. > Theists, OTOH, are given to believe in a supernatural force that does > control the world. As you wrote, "The Bible explicitly states on > numerous occasions that God is ultimately in control. Of everything. > [...] My faith in the Word of God tells me that it is true. When the > Bible says something, I believe it." You assert that your religion > establishes, in no uncertain terms, the mechanism of control (namely, > God). Since no amount of experimentation can prove or disprove the > existence or effectiveness of that mechanism, you are asserting by fiat > that you know what is true. No need for inquiry. > > I don't mean to imply that that is an inferior position, but I do mean > to imply that it means theists are far more likely than atheists to feel > they are in control, by proxy. They "know" exactly what is true and by > implication, what is false. When you know how something works, you feel > in control of it. It's human nature, because it's how most of us > experience things on a day-to-day basis. Look at debian-user: those > who understand the underlying mechanisms of how Debian works are in far > greater control of their hardware than those who don't. They (and, > quite often, you!) are the ones with the answers. The people who don't > understand are the ones with the questions. > Good points. > It's certainly true that there are atheists who forget that they don't > have all the answers, but it's also true that there are plenty more > theists who forget that they aren't the ones in control, simply because > they believe they know what is in control. Consequently, they seek to > control others, because they know what's true and false, what's right > and wrong. Or so they believe. That's why it's the theists, and not > the atheists, who assert things like dinosaurs and humans co-existed, or > that humans and apes could not have had common ancestors because, in > their view, the Bible or Koran or Torah claims otherwise. And that's > why the majority of atrocities humans have visited upon other humans > have been committed in the name of someone or another's god. That says > nothing about all the great things that have been accomplished in the > name of anyone's god, nor whatever awful things have been perpetrated > without any overt religious motivations. > I guess the fundamental difference is that I (and others who believe similarly) choose to accept the Bible as an absolute truth. Something that conflicts with it must be wrong. If you accept anything as absolute, you run the risk of finding something to be in conflict. If you accept nothing as being absolute, there is no such risk. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com
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