Re: distributions: UBUNTU vs DEBIAN
On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 05:38:13PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 24, 2006 at 10:55:00AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > > Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > For example, if the licensing restrictions on the downloadable firmware for
> > > > a particular network adapter prevent it from being included on the install
> > > > CD, then perhaps the install CD can be made to look for additional software
> > > > on a USB pen that can be used by the installer to provide license restricted
> > > > software. Or perhaps we can find a way to make it easier for people to
> > > > avoid buying hardware that relies on license restricted software in the
> > > > first place.
> > >
> > > IMHO, just as Joey Hess pointed out (in his missing post), there are
> > > lots of efforts going into this direction. Just install msttcorefonts
> > > and you'll know what I'm talking about. I just can't get easier than
> > > that. You apt-get the package and the install scripts will download all
> > > the font files and install them for you. You won't notice the
> > > difference unless you watch apt's output.
> >
> > Ah yes, but the problem is - how do I apt-get the network adapter
> > firmware mentioned in the example above when
> > a) the network doesn't work because it needs the firmware, and
> > b) Debian is not installed yet, because the installer needs the network...
> >
> > Again for those that missed it - I am entirely happy with the method for
> > installing license restricted packages using alternate repositories
> > after a Debian system has been successfully installed on the hardware...
>
> Sorry, I missed that, but see below.
>
> > My comments above (and the initial comments comparing Debian and Ubuntu)
> > were specifically addressing ease of getting an initial working system
> > installed.
> >
> > Or have I misunderstood what you are saying in some way?
> >
> > I suspect that there are more misunderstandings of what people are saying
> > than actual disagreements in this thread...
>
> Exactly. I can now understand Joey Hess's frustration about his
> message. Let me quote:
>
> [quote]
> Some, like the ndiswrapper, are even in
> Debian proper. It should be even easier to integrate such drivers into
> the installer. For example all that needs doing for ndiswrapper is:
>
> 1) Someone doing the work to keep ndiswrapper kernel modules in Debian
> up-to-date with the current version of the kernel in Debian, which is
> not currently being done.
> 2) Someone writing the necessary code to let the installer prompt or a
> windows driver CD, pull the windows drivers off it and feed them to
> ndiswrapper.
>
> (I'll tell you what: someone take care of #1, and I'll do #2.)
> [end quote]
>
> Or are you talking about more complicated cases?
If that is the missing quote to which you were referring, then yes, it
was more relevent than the later reference to apt-get'ing msttcorefonts.
But I didn't interpret it as meaining 'there are lots of efforts going
on in this direction'. It sounded to me like he was saying that lack of
manpower was more of an impediment to easier installation than lack of
technology or licencing issues. If you are reading it differently, then
perhaps it needs clarification.
I don't really see the reason for the frustration you are referring to.
Ubuntu has some differences in priorities, so it is not unreasonable that
in any objective comparison between it and Debian, there will be advantages
and disadvantages on both sides.
I think the originator of this thread was probably just interested in what
peaples impressions of the differences are, rather than going into the
philosophy behind each difference and long discussions about what can be
done to address any area where Ubuntu seems to have an advantage.
I'll grant that there may well be good reasons for the Debian installer
not to be able to use my Wireless hardware when the Ubuntu installer
managed it, but I think it would be a stretch to argue that that was
not a disadvantage from the point of view of someone attempting to do
an installation on hardware that uses it - especially someone who may
not be experienced with Linux.
That is not a criticism of Debian or a request for change. It is just
information that may be useful for someone deciding between the two
distributions if ease of installation is a priority. It just seems
difficult to make such observations without evangelists getting
defensive.
Regards,
DigbyT
--
Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com
http://www.digbyt.com
Reply to: