Angelo Bertolli wrote:
......nice little discussion. maybe some of you noticed that debian_sarge too with the new installer went wide away from the 'linux-way' that is 'treating/educating' people: 'users' as/into thinking entities.Michael Martinell wrote:The point is, the playing field isn't fair. Since a user's computer already comes with Windows, they MUST go through an installation process to install Debian. The idea is to make that installation process as easy as possible to facilitate the switch--it's really less about the philosophical viewpoint of user laziness and about the reality of the current situation. Why do you think they make those "restore cds" that come with computers? Of course it's because installing Windows "for real" is very hard. They don't want to get too many calls or to turn away customers, so they have it dumbed down to the ultimate level: put CD in drive, turn on computer, wait.On Wed, September 7, 2005 1:59 pm, Olle Eriksson wrote:I don't think people should ever have to read documents in order to use a product. Requiring people to read the docs suggests that the product itself isn't designed well enough that it explains its own usage.You claim that it allows programmers to be lazy - I challenge that it makes the end user lazy and also dangerous when they do not read and understand what they are doing before they do it. The click first and ask questions laterapproach does not actually work very well. At this company we have a department that fits this bill completely: accounting.Should Debian have a "restore cd" ? Should it be part of the Debian project itself?Well except you should probably check mark "Desktop Environment" towards the end ;)I'm not too familiar with the new installer, but couldn't there be aquestion about whether or not a GUI should be installed and have the GUI as the default option. People who know what they are doing can select thenon-GUI option and the rest will probably be happy with getting a GUI.You think the current installer is hard? It's almost mindless - you can justkeep pressing enter and everything will be fine for most newbies.
just compare the installation of potato with the installation of sarge. this difference i consider as a creeping evil of consumentism with the ultimate game of 'making things easier'. this is of course nonsense, because it makes people dependent on the increasingly undemocratic decisions of the developers: it is the old question of craving for power. a curse i think.
installing potato was education in itself. woody was easier but still reminded me of being a thinking being. installing sarge stops the mind: annoying; but sarge gives all the choices i want: so is still a true linux-choice.
my two cents 'for what they are worth', as we say here in my farmer's region.
and, yeah, some of the questions put on this list are dumb: but tell me honestly: which of you has never been dumb/lazy him/herself before?? just tell them they are lazy and see how they react. maybe they only need to wake up.
cheers, steefgroningen, netherlands