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Re: which software for professional Mailling? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

On Sat, Oct 14, 2000 at 02:23:33PM -0500, will trillich wrote:
> > 
> > > You want to send spam because "it is legal"? Fine, do it. But do it in the
> > > open as the law (probably -- after all, I don't know german law) requires,
> > > using your real email address. Just don't expect people to like it.
> > 
> >     The fact that it's legal just means that the law is f**ked. 
> so if i were to send you a printed page in an envelope with my services
> listed on it, you'd prosecute? doesn't that seem extreme, comrade?

    Considering that we've established that it's legal, obviously no. Where've
you been?

> i find spam irritating. sometimes it is extermely irritating.
> i find junk mail irritating. sometimes it is extremely irritating.
> i find telemarketers irritating.  sometimes, extremely irritating.


> of the three, email is by far most convenient for the receiver, and
> easiest to control. one 'delete' and it's out of your hair. you can
> set up filters, you can use perl regex patterns to 'protect'
> yourself, on and on.

    Also easiest for the sender, monetarily speaking, which is all that
matters. So easy for them to annoy me, and easier for me to ignore means I
should get behind it? Not to mention that I'm paying for my bandwidth, as is
any company with email service. You're telling me that I should pay to be
annoyed? Are you insane?
    Besides, I disagree. Web advertisements, tv commericials, radio
commercials, etc., are by far the most convenient for the receiver. I do not
want to be contacted by advertisers.  

> i hate spam. i loathe junk mail. i despise telemarketers.

    Agreed again...

> but there are times when i learn something and think to myself "wow,
> i didn't know that was available." usually i make a mental note
> not to use the services of whoever fills my mailbox (electronic
> or otherwise) but not always.

    I usually learn such things by actively going to pages like slashdot and
reading about it, or hearing about it from friends and aquaintences. I would
rather not receive unsolicited mail of any kind.

> surely you don't advocate capital punishment for those who try
> to make others aware of services and goods they provide. if we're

    Oh please, you're trying to distract the issue by bringing in yet another
heated topic of capital punishment. That is a completely irrelevant addition
for pure misdirection, and you know it. There are plenty of crimes that you
don't get killed for these days, so lets get back to the topic at hand, shall

> that petulant and lazy, so we want some external authority to
> take care of our little pet peeves, we shouldn't complain when
> our neighbors decide that WE irritate THEM and find ourselves
> looking at the wrong end of the cops' nightstick.

    That depends. To irritate your neighbours, did you shove flyers under
their door? Send them unsolicited email? Play your music at full volume at
3am? Barbeque on the balcony?

> i sure wouldn't have known about debian if it weren't for stumbling
> across email archives in the search engines that a whole bunch
> of bold, rude, unsolicited instigators haad the audacity to post
> without first clearing it with the central authorities. (nobody
> asked me to send this message either, so i suppose i should
> expect officer friendly at my door any minute now?)

    Funny, I learned about Debian by actively searching on Linux. It turned
up. Go fig. Then a friend told me all about it. I took his word over all else,
and he was right. No one had to shove Debian flyers under my door. 
    As for this message, yes, in fact, they did. By subscribing to the mailing
list, they in fact had an expectation to receive your email. By your argument,
I can conceive of a perfect solution. Lets create SPAM mailing lists, and
whomever _wants_ to receive SPAM, can then subscribe. I'll bet you that
they're pretty bare, and for a very good reason.

> linux and debian are about freedom -- free to share, free to
> try, free to explore, free to improve, free to change, free
> to use.

    Agreed. Your point being? I don't see free to annoy me on this list.

> centralized control is about restriction -- laws, punishment,
> prohibition, taboo, business-as-usual, avoid innovation,
> don't learn, don't try, don't risk, don't fail, don't succeed.
> don't DO.

    Oh please. There is no such thing as true freedom. There always have been,
always will be consequences for our actions, and freedom will be relative.
Under current laws I could probably sue a given spammer for harassment because
freedom does not include the freedom to harass people. They should be "free"
of your harassment. 
    Freedom is relative and we have it, but that doesn't mean that there is no
central control either. Finding a balance is what is required, and I find
being bombarded by ads everywhere I go, and even if I go nowhere, an imbalance
in the current state of things. Surely I am free to complain about it, am I
    BTW, I work for a corporation that has centralized control, but they also
give us the freedom to innovate. Balance is the key.

> either paradigm has fans, and there are countries in the world
> that'll embrace you, whichever one you'd like to live under.
> if it's legal for me to initiate a phone call, should it not
> be legal for you to send an email or her to write a letter?
> if not, maybe the CDA was a good idea. zieg heil.

    Nice emote, but again irrelevant. Stay on topic. Legal for you to phone
me? Sure, but if you're just selling something and I tell you to go away and
leave me alone, I expect that to happen. Otherwise I'd call it harassment and
press charges. If you obfuscate yourself and prevent me from telling you to
leave me alone, you are robbing me of my rights and are equally at fault. 

> i for one do NOT pine for the days when microso~1 had an
> unobstructed dominion over the future of computing.

    Neither do I. Last time I checked we were discussing SPAM. Nice tactic
though, using the most probably hated M$ name on a Linux list to gain sympathy
on your side of the argument. Irrelevant, but nice. 

    Anyway, I'll be glad to move this to an anti-SPAM forum, or human rights
forum, since this list is about Debian Linux. ;-)


Michael P. Soulier <msoulier@storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://www.storm.ca/~msoulier/personal.html

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