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Re: Python versions for Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat)

On May 19, 2010, at 12:42 AM, Sandro Tosi wrote:

>Hi Barry,
>thanks for your interest for Debian too :)

Sure thing!  While I don't regularly run Debian I do have the ability to run
quite a few VMs on my main development boxes, so it should be pretty easy for
me to test things.  I just hope you'll be patient with me asking lots of dumb
questions.  You can always tell me to RTFWP (RTF Web Page :).

>On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 23:50, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
>> On May 18, 2010, at 02:30 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>>We did make the assumption that by the time 2.7 is released Debian will be in
>Even if it won't be in freeze yet, it will soon to be, so it doesn't
>change that much
>> Yep.  I heard rumors of a June-ish freeze, but I guess nothing official has
>> yet been decided.
>Nothing written in stone, but near june yes. Funny that it's the
>python2.6 transition what's currently delaying the freeze..

Bummer.  What exactly is the hold up?  I do remember seeing those threads on
the mailing list, but I didn't quite understand what needs to be done, or the
implication that it's a blocker for Debian.

>I don't think we can include 2.7 in Debian supported versions for
>squeeze, maybe just as a "playground" for squeeze+1.

What does it mean to include Python 2.7 as a "playground"?  Is there a
possibility that squeeze+1 could switch to Python 2.7, if we were able to make
the switch in Maverick and push all necessary changes up to Debian?  I guess
it would be the folks on this mailing list making that decision, right?

Is there a wiki page or email thread that describes exactly what you guys had
to do for the Python 2.5 -> 2.6 transition, and why it was so painful?  IOW,
something like a "lessons learned" page?  If it's not recorded then it's hard
to learn from what you've already been through, and work on ways to improve
the situation this time around.

>>>Another important point that I think deserves more emphasis is that we agreed
>>>that the testing done in Ubuntu for 2.7, will also be done against the Debian
>>>archive as well. There was a strong consensus in the group that Ubuntu should
>>>take great care to avoid doing anything that would accrue a technical debt
>>>that has to be paid in Debian (I found this a notable change from similar
>>>discussions in previous release cycles).
>> I completely agree.  I've added some emphasis to the previously mentioned wiki
>> page.
>Ideally transitions should start in Debian and lend "for free" in
>ubuntu, but I understand that for 10.10 we can't make Debian the
>environment for 2.7 transition :)

Right.  It does seem preferable to get new stuff and changes into Debian
first, and let them automatically sync to Ubuntu.  In fact I'm going to work
on getting some of my own Python packages into Debian.

However, in this case I think we'll be making lots of changes in Ubuntu first,
so it's important to define the process for getting those changes back into
Debian.  I don't yet fully understand the work involved (your other messages
imply it's /a lot/ of work ;), but I'm sure I'll be painfully aware of it as
this process continues.  I'm willing to be naively ambitious for now because I
think the work won't get wasted (since we know Python 2.7 has to come
someday), and will eventually benefit both Debian and Ubuntu.


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