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Re: Python versions for Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat)

On May 19, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:

>[Barry Warsaw, 2010-05-18]
>> We can also recognize that Ubuntu and Debian may ultimately
>> make different decisions, but they should be one of timing rather than
>> substance.  What I mean by that is that we can use the basic fact of our
>> different release schedules to our advantage.
>sure, as long as Debian is not affected (and Ubuntu doesn't waste too
>much of our work)

So, how can we make sure that doesn't happen?  IOW, how can I begin to
experiment with a Python 2.7 transition in a way that will benefit Debian as

>> With Ubuntu's time-based and
>> LTS releases, we can often be more aggressive in our decisions,
>we have experimental for aggressive changes...

experimental is overlayed on top of unstable, right?  experimental's got
Python 2.6.5 right now, but once that lands in squeeze does it make sense to
get Python 2.7 into experimental?

>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickMeerkat/TechnicalOverview/Python
>* how many Ubuntu developers at least read PEP 3147?

Probably only a handful.  I'd guess that only a handful of upstream Python
core devs have read it too though. ;)  OTOH, I think most Python developers,
and Python packages, will not be affected by PEP 3147 since most don't care
about where their pyc files live.  Some will of course and we will have to fix
them or ask their authors to fix them.  Still, I suspect that the intersection
of packages that care *and* are ported to Python 3 is probably ridiculously
small right now. ;)  That would change of course if we backport to Python 2.

>* how many of them will work on huge changes that packages need in order
>  to work with PEP3147?

I don't know.  What exactly needs to change?  Not the packages themselves, but
the packaging?  How much of that can be automated?

>* will Ubuntu force Debian to use these changes (you will *have to*
>  introduce them in 10.10 if you want to use python3.2 on desktop)?

I hope not *force*.  I hope we can do a lot of the work and make it available
to Debian.

>FYI: I've been there, I tried to fix 2.6 related bugs in Ubuntu without
>possibility to test them on Debian, it's not fun at all and I will not
>do it again (since I got not nice comments and delays in return)

Well, if we understand now the types of problems that can come up, then
hopefully we can coordinate fixes for them in a much more positive way.  I
still don't have a good understanding of what - outside of Python 2.7
compatibility itself - needs to change.

BTW, if we cannot feasibly do both (provide Python 2.7 and switch to Python
3.2) then I'd rather focus on Python 2.7, since it will be released by Ubuntu
10.10 and 3.2 will not.


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