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Re: Python talks at DebConf

Hello anatoly,
I'm quite tired of your emails where you're only capable of attacking
without being able to provide valuable contributions to Debian. from
my POV, if you don't like know we do things, then help us fix them and
STOP complaining; otherwise, simply choose another distribution and
leave us alone.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 22:42, anatoly techtonik <techtonik@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> wrote:
>> Why I think derivatives should not add new versions?
>> * because it's mostly chasing numbers - I'm pretty sure there are not
>>  more than 10 packages that require Python >= 2.6 and are not easy to
>>  port to 2.5 in Ubuntu 10.04,
> Backporting is a waste of time, Python 2.6 adds new tasty useful
> functions that I use for my packages and do not want to support Python
> 2.5. I won't add them to Debian, because:
> 1. No Python 2.6
> 2. I still do not know how
> 3. Non-Python toolchain is obscure
> 4. I do not feel like to wasting time learning Debian Policy Tomes
> 5. I already know virtualenv

So, given you're not interested in debian, why are you bothering us?

on the other hand, if you are interested in debian, why don't you stop
keep complaining and start giving help? for example by completing the
transition from 2.5 to 2.6? Of course, if it's not a too big waste of
your previous time...

>>  - breaking perfectly valid XS-Python-Version or debian/pyversions,
> Sorry, I am not DD. What is this perfection for?

what question is this? if you know know what those concepts are, just
google for them; if you know what they are, change their values just
because it "seems" to fix the package is the wrong way to go.

>>  - hardcoding "-I /usr/include/python2.6" in debian/rules (yes, 2.5 was
>>    still in supported when I saw it)
>>  or no fixes at all (>100 packages that FTBFS, ignoring broken
>>  XS-Python-Version or debian/pyversions, packages that build
>>  correctly, pass all tests... and do not work[1]),
> Looks like a major failure of Debian to be a common base for
> derivative distributions for Python apps.

So help us fix it: complaining is not an option.

>> * because new version often means changes in helper tools (cdbs,
>>  debhelper, python-central, python-support) and you're risking the
>>  situation where we will not like your implementation and will rewrite
>>  them in incompatible way (and that will mean you will have to rewrite
>>  them again),
> That's why helper tools should be Python based and crossplatform, like
> the Python itself.

No, helper tools must be compatible with Debian package build system,
python happens to be the programming language of some of our packages,
like java, C, perl and tons of others; oh, make and perl are
cross-platform too.

Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi

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