Dear Andy and all.
There is one big issue with your approach: People like Gerardo
or Norbert don't follow those basic rules. "If they go low, we go
high" doesn't work with people who don't care about going low.
Norbert is regularly demanding something from others that he
clearly is not willing to give himself, and I'm quite disturbed
that this has to be pointed out, over and over again.
I encourage everyone to watch this youtube series and think about
the patterns that are going on:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ
And in this very specific context, I want to point explicitly to
the episode on "You Go High, We Go Low":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A
Please, think of what you demand because it's onesided: people
who use right-wing rethoric of “non standard gender self
identification”[1] and similar clearly don't follow those rules,
and going high when they go low only plays by their rules and
doesn't make them follow ones that are strengthening a community
in any sense because they don't care about going low.
[1]
https://www.preining.info/blog/2019/12/debian-and-the-privileged-gender-class/
So again, please watch at least the "You Go High, We Go Low"
episode and think about it.
People. Don't. Care. To go low.
Debian has a history of fostering people going low as part of its
identity and culture. It has been praised and been made fun of
over and over again. People have been told to grow a thicker skin
instead of adjusting the culture. I am aware that this process
isn't easy, to unlearn these patterns, but if we really want to
create a more welcoming environment we can't fall into the pit of
requesting high grounds ... from the abused only but not doing
anything whatsoever against the ones that repeatedly overstep
boundaries and simply don't care.
Sending hugs,
Rhonda
Quite simply i can't see why we can't all work and play nice togeather.
It appears some of us need to follow some basic rules...
1. In ALL interactions with someone, you should treat them both with respect AND treat them as you would wish them to treat you and others. If you don't know how someone wants to be addressed then look at how they refer to themselves.
2. If you don't feel able to treat people with respect or in a civil way dont interact with them at all.
3. As, if or when someone breaks rule 1 call them out on it but still be respectful to them (take the higher ground).
4. If they fail to stop behaving in a distespectful manor report it but do not continue to interact with that person. If this interaction is in anything other than a direct 1 to 1 conversation copy your complaint to the channel and ask to be invited back when they have left, repented or removed.
On 24 December 2019 18:18:25 GMT, Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> wrote:gagz> sam:"gagz" == gagz <gagz@immerda.ch> writes:gagz> If you also mean "we choose to always respect people, even gagz> when they did not respect us before", then take a punch in gagz> your face 50 times a day and try to gently ask for help. You gagz> will scream, I would bet! When you say that you cannot bring respect to people who have been violent to you, I understand. I'm not talking about what *you should do*. And I understand that bringing that respect is almost impossible if you haven't made it a significant aspect of your life to do the work to provide that sort of respect. Even if you have it's really difficult and you will sometimes fail. But when you tell me that *i do not get to hope for that*--when you presume that I don't know how hard it is, you go too far. That is an attack on my identity that I feel more strongly than an attack on me because I'm blind or queer. I know; I've experienced all of the above. I do not presume to know what it is like living in your skin; I ask that you extend me the same. More than anything else, I want--I hope for--a world of compassion. It's something thatI've spent years of my life on. It's something that I've taken religious vows to support. And no it is not easy. And no I don't expect others to be able to do that, and I understand (although sometimes disagree) when they do not. BUT I GET TO HOPE AND DREAM FOR the WORLD IN WHICH I WISH TO LIVE. And I am still a supporter of your humanity, your journey even when I hope for a kind of compassion that you (and sometimes I) are unable or unwilling to deliver. Even if you don't share my hope. I do not turn my hopes into expectations for you. My hopes do influence how I think about some things in Debian. I do hope we find more compassion. I do hope that we find ways of deescalating conflict. We must not compromise on treating people with dignity and respect regardless of how they identify themselves. We cannot compromise with people who would deny that basic humanity. But yes, when people are exposed to violence, they are going to lash out like Tina did. I get that. And to respect Tina and your humanity (and everyone else walking a similar path), we need to listen to you when you lash out. We need to make sure that civility does not become a tool to trample dignity.I personally hope that we choose to respect people always--even when they do not respect us in return.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.