Re: I get to hope
Hello,
sam:
> But when you tell me that *i do not get to hope for that*--when you
> presume that I don't know how hard it is, you go too far. That is an
> attack on my identity that I feel more strongly than an attack on me
> because I'm blind or queer. I know; I've experienced all of the
> above. I do not presume to know what it is like living in your skin;
> I ask that you extend me the same.
I'm sorry that I directly attacked you and made you feel like I don't
respect your identity.
I think I understand why you took my words personally: I used "you" in a
way that any reader would think points to you, but it was meant for
"people", including me.
I don't have a bad feeling on your writings, but a bad wording can make
conflicts escalate, I apologize for that and hope we can understand each
other past this.
Sam Hartman:
> […]
> And I understand that bringing that respect is almost impossible if you
> haven't made it a significant aspect of your life to do the work to
> provide that sort of respect.
> Even if you have it's really difficult and you will sometimes fail.
I had a hard time understanding this, but in the end I think you meant
that we must also take into account that everyone needs to work hard in
order to understand people and provide respect. I agree with that, I
reckon I have been having a veeeery long journey about it for yeaars and
still it's only the very beginning, as you have seen here…
But I will not use it as an excuse, neither for me or for anyone.
I will not cry when someone tells me I'm attacking their identity, I
will try to listen and think and apologize if I feel like I should.
I hope people will tell me when I hurt them, as you did, and no matter
the way they tell it, I should listen and think.
And specifically if someone tells me or if I can imagine there is a
systemic oppression in the game.
I changed because I got argued and shout at a lot, and that is sad but
that's mainly how people will change: being shout at. And I say
"mainly", not "all the time". I'm not talking about you personally here,
I'm not saying I must shout at you or anything, I'm only trying to
explain my vision of "telling people how they hurt"!
(I really don't want anything to be taken personally here, but my
english skills are quite limited which makes it much harder!)
So I'm usually quite easy with people I don't know, and many times I
fail, as I did with you…
And I failed because I have an ego sometimes I can't refrain and didn't
think my words could hurt you. If I had thought you could straight away
understand my words I would have been keener. I'm very sorry about that.
> More than anything else, I want--I hope for--a world of compassion.
> It's something thatI've spent years of my life on.
> It's something that I've taken religious vows to support.
> And no it is not easy.
> And no I don't expect others to be able to do that, and I understand
> (although sometimes disagree) when they do not.
>
> BUT I GET TO HOPE AND DREAM FOR the WORLD IN WHICH I WISH TO LIVE.
Fine!
I'm not exactly sure what did I say that meant you should not hope for a
better world, because I deeply think I would be dead if I had no hope at
all. It's tiny, but it's here. Otherwise this discussion would not
happen (why would I spent so much time writing if I had no hope at all?)
So yes, having hope is important, maybe even vital!
(I will not go further in the debate "should we hope or not" because
it's a very interesting but infinite off-topic discussion, but we can
have it privately if you feel like it! I have not settled something of
course, but I'm not an optimistic person regarding human beings,
including myself)
> And I am still a supporter of your humanity, your journey even when I
> hope for a kind of compassion that you (and sometimes I) are unable or
> unwilling to deliver.
> Even if you don't share my hope.
>
> I do not turn my hopes into expectations for you. My hopes do influence
> how I think about some things in Debian. I do hope we find more
> compassion. I do hope that we find ways of deescalating conflict. We
> must not compromise on treating people with dignity and respect
> regardless of how they identify themselves. We cannot compromise with
> people who would deny that basic humanity.
>
> But yes, when people are exposed to violence, they are going to lash out
> like Tina did. I get that.
> And to respect Tina and your humanity (and everyone else walking a
> similar path), we need to listen to you when you lash out. We need to
> make sure that civility does not become a tool to trample dignity.
I am a very big fan of all you say here I must say!
Thank you for these words, and taking the time to make your discourse
clearer (for me), and for reading me.
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