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Re: Request for official help

Le 25/07/2017 à 20:36, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Chris Lamb writes ("Re: Request for official help"):
>> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>>> Run that through some legal advice, though.  If "we" (Debian, SPI, etc)
>>> get to be co-responsible for the actions of someone using our EANs with
>>> permission [in some relevant juridisction], it is best to not have them
>>> in the first place.
> Henrique, can you please point me to the documentation about these
> exemption letters ?  I continue to think that this is perhaps the
> right route, but that your proposed letter wording is backwards.

Probably, hence my submission to the community.

>> I'm inclined to agree… Jean-Phillipe, is there no other way you can
>> ship these images? I would be very happy to write/sign some kind of
>> "yeah this is really all fine" document but am wary of going doing
>> some kind of official EAN registration thing that might tie us to
>> .. well, who knows.
> I think part of the problem here is the misunderstanding that Debian
> is the manufacturer here.  We are not (except in the very limited
> cases where Debian people make and sell Debian merchandise for
> Debian's funds).
> EANs usually refer to specific manufactured products, from a specific
> manufacturer.  I don't think the EAN system is well set up for a
> situation where a particular product can be manufactured independently
> by multiple people.  (The products are presumably supposed to be
> more-or-less identical: but of course different manufacturers might
> use different DVD stock, or print with or without a picture on the
> front, etc.)

ok but this approach enables to ask a more fundamental question then. Is
Debian a trademark? If it is, Debian is the manufacturer of the Debian
ISOs, and then of the OS. So it should have EANs to enable others to
sell its OS on their support. If it is not, it means that, for example,
Hypra could say: Hypra is a trademark (there is all a pocess for it in
Amazon). From this trademark, we sell Debian products, which are from us
(manufacturer) and then we can ust freely the trademark. And sell hen
Debian-Hypra for example, eg Debian OS+DVD costomized by Hypra on their box.

But to sell on Amazon, it requires to be perfectly relevant: either
Debian is a trademark, and thus manufacturer and then needs to deal with
persons who sell it (either ith EANs, or without and letters to explain
that), or it is not, but then Debian can be used in any seller's trademark.

COncerning Hypra, of course, the second solution is excellent. But it is
not obvious, then I really am interested in your approach of the topic
which, indeed, will say how we deal with this EAN topic.

> So I think the "right" way for the EAN system to operate in this case,
> if it is to be operated at all, is for each manufacturer to get a
> different EAN for each product.  If manufacturers find registering
> with the EAN system too cumbersome then surely we can look into using
> our institutional resources to help.

The only problem of this is that payment is needed and I have to say I
am not fan of paying for EANs.

> Can someone show us the agreement we (or SPI or FFIS or some other TO)
> would have to sign if we were to become an issuer of EANs ?  Perhaps
> we can simply do that and have an easy way for a Debian vendor to get
> an EAN from our allocation.

Debian can subscribe each year, for 85 euros, to gs1.org (we need to
choose the country we want). Plus 100 euros, just once. It enables to:
- have an access to 100 or more EANs

85 euros is the anual cost for the organizations with less than 500K of

cf http://gs1.org for more information

> I'd also be interested to see what approach is taken for physical
> prints of 3D models, which have certain similarities to (say) Debian
> DVDs in this context.

I think such sellers have EAN, as their activity is mainly based on
products selling, and not only services, then it makes sense for them to
have such subscription and pay an anual cost for it.

Best regards,

> Thanks,
> Ian.

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Tel : +331 84 73 06 61 <tel:+33184730661> Mob : +336 76 34 93 37
jpmengual@hypra.fr <mailto:jpmengual@hypra.fr>
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