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Re: Can I still depend on Debian?

On Mon, 2014-11-17 at 14:10 -0800, Rhy Thornton wrote:
> More concerning than that is that systemd won't be producing human 
> readable log files.  As a full time sysadmin, I'm reading log files all 
> day, and I have to wonder what the reasoning behind this is (to be fair, 
> I haven't really looked into it yet.  I'm busy with real work).

No, in the default install in Debian log files remain as they always
have.  So they will text, written to separate files.  You can of course
change this to whatever your favourite logging style is - and that
includes systemd binary logs.

In fact in the usual Debian fashion from the outside we seem to be
chaotically stumbling, but as always it is towards the best technical
solution (imho!).  And that solution appears to be (fingers crossed):

1.  Adopt the best init system as the default for jessie - which happens
    to be systemd.

2.  Arrange things so either systemd or SysV can be used for jessie. [0]

3.  Ignore the rest of the stuff that comes with systemd, bar udev
    and logind. [1] [2] [3]

4.  I don't understand why systemd would be important to desktop users,
    but regardless Debian is throwing those among them who would prefer
    not to use it a bone by no longer insisting Gnome is the default
    window manager for new installs.

All in all, I don't see how the transition could be done better.  I
rarely see that in other projects, but after decade or so of using it,
it is the standard I have come to expect of Debian.

On the other hand, I'm not so proud of the collateral damage we have
managed to inflict on ourselves in moving towards this point.  In fact
it's downright worrisome.  But them I'm a newcomer, some perhaps I'll
just have to get used to it.

[0] Allowing both SysV and systemd is the only sane way to go as systemd
    hasn't been deployed widely in production servers yet. This gives
    sysadmins one release cycle to suck it and see.  Forcing them to
    move to a new init system that ended up having unforeseen horrors
    without providing them a fall back position would be a disaster, for
    both them and Debian.  Needing the fallback seems unlikely of
    course, and if systemd proves to be as solid as it looks, I'd expect
    SysV to quietly fade away in stretch.

[1] Unfortunately, ignored doesn't mean not installed.  If the systemd
    packaging team had of seen fit to split all the stuff unused by
    default into separate package(s) I suspect they would removed some
    of the heat from the transition.  That would have made everyone’s 
    lives a little more peaceful, particularly their own.

[2] What isn't used is a surprisingly long list.  It's covered pretty
    well on systemd's Wikipedia page:  

[3] We will all get to play with the new goodies provided by systemd in
    jessie for a couple of years.  If the consensus is they are indeed
    better than they things they replace I'd expect to see them to
    become the default in stretch.

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