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Re: Code of Conduct: picking up

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2013, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> Inevitably, the CoC will be voted on in a GR.  The right time to
>> continue this dogpile is in the vote.
> Mh… we’ll see how that turns out.
>> Norbert Preining writes ("Re: Code of Conduct: picking up"):
>> > Why don't we try to be *honest*, something like
>> >
>> >     Debian is a practical oligarchy. If you don't happen to
>> >     sit in key positions, you should be careful what you
>> >     are saying since disrespectful behaviour versus the
>> >     oligarchs will be punished by bans without recurse.
> This matches my experience, and that of others.
>> > Following the Code of Conduct I will probably be punished for making
>> > jokes about the different gender, different religion, different
>> > political opinion, and maybe even different OS. Where is the border,
>> > where is the limit.
> This is true. While many of such jokes are probably something
> undesirable, some people go actively against any and all jokes
> of that matter (I’ve had that Arabic script crashing Apple’s
> text thingy in my .sig for a while, and got told off for it
> very brusquely, so I had to remember to actively switch .sig
> for when writing to Debian lists; and there are other cases
> that aren’t even that “offensive”).
> Those people will force Debian to leave around Unix tradition
> even more, just to adhere to some sort of “political correctness”
> that mostly comes from some culture that is only a part of the
> whole.

I think you may be mistaking "Unix tradition" [1] for "Troll culture" [2],
but I'll leave you with a quote from one of my favorite authors, which
may help put things in perspective.:

    I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday
    which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…”
    talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their
    culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually
    anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other
    people with respect.”

    Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we
    replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating
    other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

    You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

    I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s
    treating other people with respect gone mad!”

    - Neil Gaiman

>> Your message is unhelpful and unconstructive, and makes unfounded
>> allegations against listmaster et al.
> Your message proves Norbert’s point very well, thank you.
> I don’t oppose some sort of “code of conduct” in general,
> but if it’s to be used as weapon, I think we’re better off
> *not* having one (sorry Wouter) and thus will vote against.
> (Enough of people either using the SC as weapon or telling
> others off for merely remembering other people of the SC.)

Nothing in the proposed CoC, prevents people from expressing their
opinions, in a way that may be considered direct or blunt.

IE: One can still say, "I think you are very wrong, and this is why..."

> bye,
> //mirabilos


[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

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