Re: Switching the default startup method
* Raphael Hertzog (firstname.lastname@example.org) [090824 08:54]:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Andreas Barth wrote:
> > We should definitly continue to support oldstyle booting, at least for
> > the time being.
> Until what?
Until we know that the new method really works 100% correct, people
enjoy the switch and we noticed that in fact the old packages are
orphaned and not used anymore.
This is not the case. I don't know when this will be the case, but
don't expect it to be the case during the squeeze release cycle.
(1-2 stable releases I'd expect if everything works well.)
> They are relying on an inferior system and the fact that they are used to
> it doesn't change anything on its inferior design.
This is just your own personal opinion. Please do not try to enforce
your personal opinion on all of us. Thanks.
> > Please do not break something that works. Please be conservative with
> > changes to essential stuff. Debian is not a sandbox nor your
> > playground, but used on many production systems. The trust that we do
> > mainly sane decisions is one of our most valuable possesions. And we
> > should make sure we keep that trust.
> That's granted but it's easier to say from your place instead of petter's
> place... I for one appreciate the work that he has put in all this and
> I would highly prefer that you help him instead of complaining about his
My proposal is to just undo the dependency for the moment. This would
take the pressure away.
> Because you're giving away the message that you don't care very much of
> Petter's work and that you prefer staying with the old system instead of
> fixing the new system to suit your needs, and that's backwards.
Can we please stay away from ad-hominem arguments.
So, please re-read my mail. I said more than once that I do appreciate
the work (and I really do, I think there are many scenarios where
dependency based boot will help us). I however do not appreciate
breaking working systems, that is correct. I just think that the new
system has not reached the point where it should be the default, and
definitly not the point where we should force people to use it.
(In other words, not all Debian systems are alike. That Debian allows
the variaty and we don't say "uh, but all people use
(gnome|kde|whatever), this is not supported" is one of our (almost
unique) selling points. For what reason should we do it different this
time, especially without being forced?)