[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Switching the default startup method

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:54:06AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Andreas Barth wrote:
> > We should definitly continue to support oldstyle booting, at least for
> > the time being.
> Until what? Missing boot-time dependencies were the only problem that had
> to be adressed to fix boot sequence ordering.

Until we're 100% confident that the new method is working correctly, and
is not causing problems for our users.

That's how we've always implemented intrusive changes such as this one.

I have no problem with making it the default for new installs -- that
makes sense. However, it should still be possible for people to remove
it if they have problems with it.

> Sure administrators will have to learn tweaking init scripts
> dependencies instead of tweaking numbers but one always has something
> to learn when upgrading to a newer version.

This isn't just about 'learning new stuff'.

> > > I think the missing point here is that insserv is just one of the ways to
> > > fix the problem of having to guess a correct start number, among many
> > > others; and any system that doesn't implement that is actually a
> > > regression. There are other tools similar to insserv that also do
> > > dependency-based booting (but AFAIK none of them are in Debian).
> > 
> > So you are telling us here that anyone who depends on the 20+ years
> > working method of ordering boot with decimal numbers is using a
> > regression?
> They are relying on an inferior system and the fact that they are used to
> it doesn't change anything on its inferior design.

What makes it an 'inferior design'? I utterly disagree with that statement.

There are advantages to dependency-based boot systems, sure; but there
are advantages to *not* having that, too (e.g., it is more
deterministic, and therefore easier to debug).

Debian's had multiple choices for init scripts for a long time (file-rc
vs sysv-rc). I don't think there's any good reason to throw that out the

The biometric identification system at the gates of the CIA headquarters
works because there's a guard with a large gun making sure no one is
trying to fool the system.

Reply to: