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Re: irc.debian.org

Hallo! Du (Paul Johnson) hast geschrieben:

>> Jabber doesn't have any useable non-graphic Clients.
>So write one or grab one of the existing ones and make it not suck.

sorry. out of skills. (beside that that would be on my todo-list the
point behind 'rewriting nn')

Btw, there was an irssi-plugin for jabber, but that didn't implement
groupchat, and it looks like the development has been discontinued.

>> for the usual one 
>> to one communication it might be ok, but for groupchat (and thats what
>> most people do on IRC it simply sucks.

>By design, IRC encourages people to do truly obnoxious things, like spamming 
>the channel to announce they're going away, or indicating their status with 
>nicknames (which also spams the channel).  You also get spammed on IRC 
>whenever someone joins or leaves a channel.  Jabber prevents this by 
>providing a real presence system.  Jabber provides all the same "modes" IRC 
>does in group chat, except bans actually work because they're not stupidly 
>tied to some arbitrary netmask.  Nicknames changes, joins and parts aren't 
>spammed to the channel unless your client adds them in for you (but changes 
>are still reflected in the listing of who is in the chat).  Jabber networks 
>don't go on begging sprees for funding.  OFTC will invariably spam you like 
>every other IRC network since the dawn of time the first moment they get more 
>than a few users.

You don't need to tell me what jabber is. I deployed and run it on our
company-network, to get cow-orkers away from Yahoo/AIM/MSN/...
IM-Services, so internal information has a better chance to be
internal ;-)

My experience is that there isn't a useable Textual Client (there are
a few, but they don't have groupchat implemented), and the graphical
ones (GAIM, PSI) implement some things but are not complete. So with
psi it isn't possible to configure Groupchat, Gaim can't discover
Services, and if you are Operator of the thing, you need tkabber,
which falls short on some other nice-to-haves (iirc it crashes after
some time). (as a footnote, my irssi-client usually has nearly the
same uptime as the box it runs on.)

So, until there isn't a stable and complete free-as-in-speech
client-implementation jabber isn't ready to provide the recommended
online way to get help for Debian.

>IRC was a good early effort, but 20 years have passed and IRC is still plagued 
>by the same problems it started with and shows no signs of improvement over 
>time, just like Windows.  Isn't it time the world moved on already?

the world won't. (and Windows is still there, even if The Hurd would
be released before Vista)

So you want us to moving on to something that is worse than the
current (yes, 20 year old) technology, only because it is old? Maybe
it simply provides all that is needed? If it wouldn't people really
moved on as some did, for example on the Webserver-Sector. (btw: did
you notice that http and smtp is already over 10 years old. Time to
replace it?).

personally, i would prefer Psyc (http://psyc.pages.de) as the
successor of irc. at least because it provides a functional
irc-client-interface (and jabber, and web, and....) and brings the
good things of IRC and Jabber (and some more IM-thingies) together.
Sadly there's only one free-as-in-beer server yet (you are not allowed
to use the underlying ldmud for commercial things)


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