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Re: Spam

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 05:07:26PM +0100, David N. Welton wrote:
> Jeroen Dekkers <jeroen@dekkers.cx> writes:
> > And what if an e-mail address of the whitelist is included in the
> > From: address? If you take a mail archive for example, the address
> > of the mailinglist and addresses in the white list can be on the
> > same page. And closing mailinglist archives isn't a practical
> > solution.
> I'm not sure how the software the ASF use handles this.  I don't get
> spam on those lists, though, and that's a pretty important point.
> It's something Debian has not been able to accomplish, yet.

I'm on a lot of mailinglists which accomplish this without

> > > This is something that is currently in place, and *works* for the
> > > ASF.
> > That something works for the ASF doesn't mean that it works for
> > everybody.
> I guess, but I don't really see the big difference.  I think it makes
> a lot of sense to look at a functional setup that works, and see what
> can be taken from it, don't you?  Isn't that one of the points of
> participating in the free software comunity?  Sharing successful
> ideas?

But how useful is it for us? Are you going to moderate all those
lists? Who takes care that a moderator doesn't delete wrong messages
and restricts what's said? People could do better things IMHO.
> > > In any case, I think AJ's solution is pretty good and is worth
> > > pursuing.
> > If you mean moderating (I haven't read the original post, only the
> > debian-project posts), I don't think that works. People should spend
> > time making Debian better instead of moderating.
> Well, yeah, in an ideal world, but we are trying to fix the spam
> problem.  Like I've explained about 5 times already, it doesn't take a
> lot of time.  Much less, certainly, than writing email telling us how
> the world should be...

Well, if people talk about solutions to some problem which are in your
opinion wrong you should tell them that you think otherwise. At least
that's my opinion.

> Also, it doesn't require anyone with special skills.  Anyone who wants
> to take the time to help debian (and there are lots of people) could
> perform this role.

They could perfom a lot of more useful tasks.

> Anyway, read Anthony's post - it's the best idea so far.

I'll do it, but I still think moderating is bad.

> > > > How do we solve the problem then? I think the answer is easy,
> > > > just make some good law against spam. Punish the people who send
> > > > spam. That would *solve* the problem, not work around it. So
> > > > instead of just the next message discussing about spam, talk to
> > > > the political persons in your country.
> > > > And although the answer is easy, I'm aware that getting such a
> > > > law isn't that easy. But that doesn't make impossible.
> > > Uh, let me know how it's going 10 years from now.  Until then,
> > > I'll take a more practical solution.
> > Out of experience I can tell that spam filtering is the most
> > practical solution speaking short term.
> Out of reading your email, I can tell that you have experience with
> one solution, that probably works well on an individual level.

I don't use spamfiltering software myself other than some quick
procmail hacks to filter mails in HTML and Korean.

> Spam filtering needs maintaining, and may generate false positives.  A
> lot of people seem to have doubts as to whether it will work at a
> project level.

A lot of mailinglists I am on don't have a lot of spam, but maybe
that's possible the addresses are on less places on the web.
> > Talking to politicians is the most practical solution if you want to
> > talk about long term solutions.
> Great, but it will take a long-term time scale...

True, but we should still do it.

Jeroen Dekkers
Jabber supporter - http://www.jabber.org Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org
Debian GNU supporter - http://www.debian.org http://www.gnu.org
IRC: jeroen@openprojects

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