On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 07:51:41AM -0500, Rich Johnson wrote:
> >
> >It sounds as if you used the hd-media images. My understanding is that
> >if you want to install over the net, you should use the netboot images
> >instead of the hd-media images. (Netboot does not necessarily mean
> >that the images needed to boot is fetched from the net at boot time).
> >The hd-media version of the installer expect to find the files needed
> >locally.
> >
> Correct. My first choice was for a net install, but since the
> documentation for net-install implied that a tftp server was
> required, I opted to try the hd-media kit.
If it really does imply that, then that is a serious problem with the
documentation.
I might have confused some things but I think there are three
different stages which can be loaded by different means, and the
documentation does not really describe this.
> I downloaded the kit. I Had to hunt up a yaboot executable since it
> wasn't in the kit.
I wonder why not?
> I then went and hunted up the ''business-card'' iso image (also not
> in the kit)
> The problems came when the hd-media installer couldn't find the
> image on an HFS+ filesystem.
>
> That the hd-media installer doesn't support even _ONE_ filesystem
> native to the machine it's intended to run from is absurd. What is
> causing this? It's clearly not the size of the kernel. And it can't
> be the size of the download since the _minimal_ download for a sarge
> hd-media install is 99+ MB (businesscard.iso)
I don't know hfs+ is not supported.
> [...snip...]
> >If you want to be able to install from hd-media and have only HFS+
> >partitions, that cannot be read by the installer, you could use a
> >usb-stick and put the powerpc/hd-media/boot.img.gz on it (as suggested
> >in
>
> You assume I have one. I do not. I have a network connection. I'd
> like to use available hw.
Sure, but then netboot is what you want (that the documentation does
not say this, is another matter).
> [...snip...]
> >>I gave up went back to the the woody installer. It has the following
> >>compelling attributes:
> >> 1. There is a single-machine, no-iso, no-tftp installation option
> >>(http://people.debian.org/~branden/ibook.html)
> >> 2. A complete kit is downloadable from a single url--including
> >>yaboot (http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/woody/main/disks-
> >>powerpc/current/new-powermac/)
> >> 3. It supports the native filesystem for the machine you're
> >>installing it on (HFS+)
> >> 4. The kit is relatively small (~7M)
> >> 5 It works.
> >>
> >>IMO, the sarge/etch installer represents a step backwards until it
> >>also has these attributes.
> >
> >The netboot images provides [1]-[4] except for [3]. But [3] is
> >uninteresting if you want [4].
> >
> >Perhaps the installaion manual did not provide a clear description of
> >the intended purpose of the netboot images?
>
> Let's go through these:
> 1. The manual gives no mention of launching a download install from
> the HD. See manual comments below.
So, the manual is broken. Let's try to fix it.
> 2. I could find _NO_ complete kit. None of the kits in http://
> http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-powerpc/current/
> images/powerpc /contains the yaboot bootstrap (only one contains a
> yaboot.conf). Contrast this with (http://http.us.debian.org/debian/
> dists/woody/main/disks-powerpc/current/new-powermac/). Likewise,
> BootX and quik bootstraps(for oldworld machines) are missing. None
> of the kits have a README indicating constraints or listing other
> components required for success, or where to obtain them.
OK.
> 3. I would think HFS+ support would be useful for loading the ram-
> disk from an HFS+ filesystem.
The ramdisk is loaded to RAM by the bootloader, not the kernel.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- ----
> Manual comments.
> There are precious few links to the actual repositories. Every time
> a file to be downloaded is mentioned, a link to the repository
> containing it would be welcome.
>
> Page http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst (Installing Debian GNU/
> Linux via the Internet) give's two options:
> - minimal CD
> - Floppy disks
> There is absolutely no mention of using HD partition provided by a co-
> resident OS.
This is bad.
> Likewise section 4.5.2 :4.5.2. Hard Disk Installer Booting for
> NewWorld Macs (http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/
> ch04s05.html.en#files-newworld)
> makes no mention of accessing either iso images from an HFS+
> partition. Neither does the list of installation files include the
> ram-disk (what was root.bin, is it now root.img? ).
> The entire Network install section in the powerpc's manual reads:
> (http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/
> ch02s02.html.en#id2515543)
> >>>>
> 2.2.5. Network
> You can also boot your system over the network.
>
> Diskless installation, using network booting from a local area
> network and NFS-mounting of all local filesystems, is another option.
>
> After the operating system kernel is installed, you can install the
> rest of your system via any sort of network connection (including PPP
> after installation of the base system), via FTP or HTTP.
>
> <<<<<<<<
>
> So, yeah, I'd say it doesn't provide a clear description.
Here a draft on the possiblities involved. If my understanding of the
issues are correct, the installation manual needs some extensive
rewriting.
There are three different stages A, B and C, that can be loaded by
different means:
A. How to *start* the debian-installer?
1. Boot from removable media that has an installer-image on its boot
block (e.g. CDROM, floppy, usb)
2. Use a bootloader from within a existing operating system (yaboot,
BootX, penguin)
2b. (possible, but not very common) Use a native bootloader (yaboot,
grub, lilo) installed on harddisk)
3. Netboot (pxe or other methods gets a bootloader by dhcp and tftp)
(pxelinux or yaboot loads (by tftp) the kernel and initrd needed)
B. From where is the debian-installer to get its *own modules* (needed for its own functioning)?
1. From the removable media (CDROM or usb) that started the debian-installer at boot
2. From .iso-file on local harddisk (Filesystem must be readable by the debian-installer, which exludes HFS+)
3. From the net (internet or local debian-mirror)
C. From where is the debian-installer to get the software that will *install*
C1: The base system
1. From the removable media (CDROM or usb) that started the debian-installer at boot
2. From .iso-file on local harddisk (Filesystem must be readable by the debian-installer, which exludes HFS+)
3. From the net (internet or local debian-mirror)
C2: Additional packages
1. From the removable media (CDROM or usb) that started the debian-installer at boot
2. From .iso-file on local harddisk (Filesystem must be readable by the debian-installer, which exludes HFS+)
3. From the net (internet or local debian-mirror)
You control B by choosing what images you will use. I *think* any
image can be started in any of the tree ways outlined in A (thus
netboot does NOT imply a tftp boot).
"Netboot" means B:3
"Hd-media" means B:2
"Business" means B:1
I think that you can choose C1 and C2 at install time (if you run the
installer at a low enough priority)
Even if some the above is incorrect, the manual does not at all
describe these things satisfactory.
--
Hans Ekbrand (http://sociologi.cjb.net) <hans@sociologi.cjb.net>
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