On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:47:42 +0000 The Fungi <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 28, 2007 at 09:19:12PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote: > [...] > > What kind of popcon score? i.e. does anyone else think it is a useful > > addition? > > I would consider its popularity low (187 popcon installs with 46 > votes). It's not that low. It looks like quite a few people find it useful, so that's good. > Admittedly, Russ sponsored it because he said thought he was > likely to find it useful. If it's consensus among the Debian > community, or even merely the opinion of my sponsor, that the > package I currently maintain is of little enough worth as not to > outweigh its drain on (security team, mirror operator, release > management) resources, I would certainly not protest its removal. I was only curious. > Still, I will potentially be looking to maintain more of my projects > within Debian, as they reach functional maturity, and may then > revisit entering NM; Personally, I would encourage that. Although don't forget that being a DD is not all about packages in the archive. There are other ways that you can contribute and completing NM only increases the possibilities. > At any rate, the goal was not to talk about myself per se (as I > entertain no illusions that either I or my work is of any great > value to Debian, nor will I claim to be more than even a marginal > example in favor of my point), but merely to stand up and be > counted. I don't expect to sway your opinion that only packages > maintained by people intent on becoming official DDs are of any > quality or worth; but just as you seemed inclined to provide it, I > felt compelled to present a counter-argument against such broad > generalization. I think you have misinterpreted my position. Sponsoring is an introduction to NM and whether or not the maintainer is looking to join NM has no effect on the quality of packages at the start of sponsoring. However, the likelihood of starting or being in the NM process itself is the perfect time to improve the quality of the current packages and all subsequent packages from that maintainer because the topics covered in NM are often best understood by being explained in the context of a package that is being actively sponsored at the same time. I would rather sponsor someone prepared to go through NM for a couple of reasons: 1. Demonstration of commitment to the package and to Debian. 2. The NM process teaches a lot of things that would otherwise take up time on mentors or between maintainer and sponsor. 3. Sponsoring eases the NM process itself so the NM queue is processed more quickly, benefiting everyone in the NM process. 4. Someone in the NM queue will, eventually, become able to upload their own packages which not only gives them an incentive but gives me an escape route so that I'm not sponsoring that maintainer for ever and a day. > In recent years, I have seen several discussions on devel in which > it was suggested that the number of DDs is unnecessarily high, and > that it's entirely possible to provide a wide variety of valuable > resources to the project without requiring official DD status. True - but each of those methods of contribution become easier, quicker and generally more compatible with the rest of Debian if a DD is involved. My work in Emdebian is an example - it is a mix of DD's and non DD's and when things in Debian need tweaking, it is often easier if one of the "recognised names" makes the request. Like it or not, other DD's are prepared to listen to another DD more than a random maintainer. NM is recognised as a significant step in and of itself and once completed, doing anything in Debian just becomes easier. > These > arguments seemed (to me) quite cogent, just as have the arguments > suggesting the number of packages in main is unnecessarily high. If > you (or others) feel that I am "part of the problem," I suppose I'll > just have to live with that. No, you aren't "part of the problem". The benefits of being in NM are such that I agree with other sponsors that I feel I must give priority to those maintainers who take the step to join Debian. It is better for them, it is better for me, it is better for Debian and it is better for the packages themselves. The "problem" is that like all contributors, my time is limited and if I do give priority to those willing to do NM, I have no time left for those who do not consider NM worthy of their time. Like it or not, a maintainer who is prepared to start NM deserves more of my time and assistance than a maintainer who does not. -- Neil Williams ============= http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
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