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Re: [Vmdebootstrap-devel] Bug#804315: Namespace issues

On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:59:41 +0100
chals <chals@chalsattack.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Iain R. Learmonth <irl@debian.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > It is worth noting that live-build is not a Debian project, it is an
> > external project that claims to be an official Debian project. This
> > is something that needs to be fixed.
> >
> > There is no namespace issue, we are building on the existing
> > live-config and live-boot packages that are maintained and bringing
> > these into Debian as native projects. If necessary, these will be
> > forks, but I'm hoping that won't have to happen and that we can
> > integrate these packages into Debian and continue development in a
> > collaborative manner.
> >
> > live-build has been deprecated by debian-cd, and live-build-ng is
> > replacing it. In a purely Debian context at least, live-build is
> > deprecated. live-build-ng is being developed in collaboration with
> > debian-cd and D-I.
> >
> > I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has been
> > a long time coming and I'm not going to spend time bikeshedding
> > over naming. I would rather spend that time on integration of live
> > image creation into official Debian infrastructure and building the
> > best system for live image creation possible.
> >  

Apologies for making it look like Iain was the only voice on this. I've
been unwell this weekend and Steve has been busy with the miniDebConf
and is now (presumably) catching up on the sleep he lost whilst
organising it.

> Hi,
> Reading what you say, and I beg your pardon before going on, I can
> tell that you absolutely have no idea about what the debian live
> project is or about its history. But well, I have to admit that if
> what you say is true, then you have a point.

I've been involved with debian-live before. I remember a meeting with
the live team at a previous debconf (Argentina?) where one of my
previous rootfs build tools [multistrap] was being considered for a
role within live but we didn't find a good match.

> You say "I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has
> been a long time coming"
> Yes you are absolutely right, you are upsetting people, people like me
> who have contributed to debian for years and spent hours of effort to
> make things better.

Sorry, but I'm assuming you don't mean that Iain, Steve or I haven't
spent years contributing and uploading to Debian and years and years of
effort to make Debian better.
> "A long time coming"? Excuse me, but the first thing I've ever heard
> in all these years is that you and I mean you (not the debian cd team,
> who supposedly is responsible for this upheaval) 

It is the team. Steve has been asking me for this support in
vmdebootstrap for months and months. Every time there is a release or a
point release, I get more nagging because he has to struggle with
fixing live-*.

> shows up from out of
> the blue claiming that you have the right to do as you please and
> decide about the future of the debian live team.

Iain is not on his own. This comes from the debian-cd team. Steve has
been nagging me for vmdebootstrap support to replace live-build since
about a week after vmdebootstrap arrived in Debian, certainly before
the Jessie release.
> This is, from my point of view, an act of dictatorship and with my
> authority as a debian user and contributor for years I demand you step
> down from your position and ask for forgiveness to the debian live
> team for being so rude, impolite and not worthy of any more of my
> priceless words and time.

Not going to happen. Just what "authority" is a user meant to have?
Those who do the work in Debian earn the right to make the decisions on
how that work is done in Debian.


Neil Williams

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