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Re: [Vmdebootstrap-devel] Bug#804315: Namespace issues

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Neil Williams <codehelp@debian.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:59:41 +0100
> chals <chals@chalsattack.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Iain R. Learmonth <irl@debian.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > It is worth noting that live-build is not a Debian project, it is an
>> > external project that claims to be an official Debian project. This
>> > is something that needs to be fixed.
>> >
>> > There is no namespace issue, we are building on the existing
>> > live-config and live-boot packages that are maintained and bringing
>> > these into Debian as native projects. If necessary, these will be
>> > forks, but I'm hoping that won't have to happen and that we can
>> > integrate these packages into Debian and continue development in a
>> > collaborative manner.
>> >
>> > live-build has been deprecated by debian-cd, and live-build-ng is
>> > replacing it. In a purely Debian context at least, live-build is
>> > deprecated. live-build-ng is being developed in collaboration with
>> > debian-cd and D-I.
>> >
>> > I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has been
>> > a long time coming and I'm not going to spend time bikeshedding
>> > over naming. I would rather spend that time on integration of live
>> > image creation into official Debian infrastructure and building the
>> > best system for live image creation possible.
>> >
> Apologies for making it look like Iain was the only voice on this. I've
> been unwell this weekend and Steve has been busy with the miniDebConf
> and is now (presumably) catching up on the sleep he lost whilst
> organising it.
>> Hi,
>> Reading what you say, and I beg your pardon before going on, I can
>> tell that you absolutely have no idea about what the debian live
>> project is or about its history. But well, I have to admit that if
>> what you say is true, then you have a point.
> I've been involved with debian-live before. I remember a meeting with
> the live team at a previous debconf (Argentina?) where one of my
> previous rootfs build tools [multistrap] was being considered for a
> role within live but we didn't find a good match.
>> You say "I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has
>> been a long time coming"
>> Yes you are absolutely right, you are upsetting people, people like me
>> who have contributed to debian for years and spent hours of effort to
>> make things better.
> Sorry, but I'm assuming you don't mean that Iain, Steve or I haven't
> spent years contributing and uploading to Debian and years and years of
> effort to make Debian better.
>> "A long time coming"? Excuse me, but the first thing I've ever heard
>> in all these years is that you and I mean you (not the debian cd team,
>> who supposedly is responsible for this upheaval)
> It is the team. Steve has been asking me for this support in
> vmdebootstrap for months and months. Every time there is a release or a
> point release, I get more nagging because he has to struggle with
> fixing live-*.

Would you (or Steve or the Debian CD team) please point to actual real
bugs that affected you?
You claim it as a reason of debian cd team switch to vmdebootsrap. As
a live-build user, I'm interested by these.

>> shows up from out of
>> the blue claiming that you have the right to do as you please and
>> decide about the future of the debian live team.
> Iain is not on his own. This comes from the debian-cd team. Steve has
> been nagging me for vmdebootstrap support to replace live-build since
> about a week after vmdebootstrap arrived in Debian, certainly before
> the Jessie release.
>> This is, from my point of view, an act of dictatorship and with my
>> authority as a debian user and contributor for years I demand you step
>> down from your position and ask for forgiveness to the debian live
>> team for being so rude, impolite and not worthy of any more of my
>> priceless words and time.
> Not going to happen. Just what "authority" is a user meant to have?
> Those who do the work in Debian earn the right to make the decisions on
> how that work is done in Debian.

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