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Re: AGPL request for summary of recent discussion

On 02/09/13 12:14, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Paul Wise <pabs <at> debian.org> writes:
>> Likewise. I don't appreciate the disrespectful tone some folks have
>> displayed in this and other recent threads. I would like to remind
> Oh great, and who’s going to deal with trolls then? You’re not
> holding Francesco to them, I’m noticing.

I think there's a few mails in the archive from me on those lines, but I
usually contact people off-list with such specific criticisms.
Basically, I feel it's a minor problem because Francesco seems polite if
repetitive - although I think this thread started because someone
doesn't follow the list closely, so I'm not sure if that got noticed!

> I’ve heard that Francesco is the reason people are considering
> unsubscribing from this list. Yes, it’s *that* bad. [...]

Well, we "hear" things like that every time someone doesn't agree about
whether software follows the DFSG or not, yet the number of subscribers
seems to be generally increasing towards some asymptote

There are solutions short of unsubscribing, such as filtering, if you
really cannot stand to hear certain voices.  So far, I think I've
filtered three people out during 10 years.  The conduct on this list has
improved over time, but it could always improve further, of course.

> (And, for the record, I did try to make constructive suggestions
> how Francesco can try to get his point across better.)

I noticed a suggestion that Francesco should work to become a DD because
he's "not even a Debian Developer!" which seems a bit of a throwback to
the "non-package-maintaining contributors not welcomed" dark ages.  Even
as someone in it, I feel most of the project is moving beyond a
keyring-cabal mentality.

I also noticed a suggestion that Francesco should shut up and then try
to convince the project about the problems with the AGPL "from
within"(huh?), which seemed rather absurdly destructive to me: how does
someone convince others without explaining the problems?

Both of those were in close proximity to some quite sharp words.

Were there other suggestions I didn't notice?  If not, I think we may
have different understandings of "constructive".

> Sorry I’m brutally honest. And yes, I stand by my actions.

No need to be sorry about honesty: please be sorry for not being polite
and collaborative, or at least not being clear.

> And, tbh, if this is official (someone finally says something
> against a long-standing annoyment, to the rejoicing of other
> people including DDs who suffered under said annoyment, only
> to be flamed by people who have failed to contribute so far)
> I can understand unsubscribing. It’s “only” Debian that suffers.

I'm sorry that you feel flamed.  That was not my intent.

I regret that my debian contributions over recent years have been
smaller than I'd like, for various reasons mostly related to working on
other projects, but I feel pabs (maintains over thirty packages, does QA
uploads and NMUs, sponsors over forty more) has contributed well, so
listen to pabs if that's your criteria.

MJ Ray (slef)

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