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Re: ldp-es_20002103-7_i386.changes REJECTED

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 03:21:30PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
> From the posted link, Spanish law seems consistent with copyright law as
> I'm familiar with it here:
>   Artículo 11. Obras derivadas.
> This is the familiar definition of a derived work.  "without prejudicing
> the rights of the author over the original" is the key phrase, because
> one of the rights the author has over the original is to *have some say
> in the creation of derived works*.  That a derived work is an "object of

	Exactly that's the key phrase, but the way you read it is not
correct (at least under spanish law). 

> intellectual property" does not mean that the creator of a derived work
> has exclusive control over that work to the same extent as over a
> completely original work.

	He does not, but he does have rights that cannot be removed by the
original creator. Once the right to make a derived version has been
granted the copyright applies to the derived creation as a *new* creation. 

>     4.º Exigir el respeto a la integridad de la
>   obra e impedir cualquier deformación,
>   modificación, alteración o atentado contra
>   ella que suponga perjuicio a sus legítimos
>   intereses o menoscabo a su reputación.

	It's easy to quote wrongly.
> It is easy to make the case that a translation can be a "deformation" of
> the original work. :)

	It's not since there is already an article talking about the right
regarding derivative works:

Artículo 21. Transformación.

1. La transformación de una obra
comprende su traducción, adaptación y
cualquier otra modificación en su forma de
la que se derive una obra diferente.

	Note that "translation" implies "transformed work":

(...)esta última, sin perjuicio del derecho del
autor de la obra preexistente de autorizar,
durante todo el plazo de protección de sus
derechos sobre ésta, la explotación de
esos resultados en cualquier forma y en
especial mediante su reproducción,
distribución, comunicación pública o
nueva transformación.

(Free translation:)

"(...)this last one, without prejudice of the right of the author
of the [original] work to authorise, during all the time that the rights
stand, the explotation of those results in any way and especially their
reproduction, distribution, public communication and new transformation."

So, as I read it. Once I translate a work, the only (copy)right that holds
the original author is to authorise or deny reproduction, distribution,
communication, etc. of the translation. If the author has authorised me to
create the *new* work (even if call derivative you can read that it's
considered new and copyrightable by itself) I can do whatever I want
*unless* he tells me that he does not want me to do one of the things
above (and he has to enforce that right, if he is silent, then I can do it
in any case). 

Of course, he can enforce this right at any moment so a
DFSG-free work based on a non-DFSG work can be turned non-DFSG (worse yet,
can be denied the authorisation to be distributed) at any given time. 
This does not imply that I cannot make my translation GFDL for example, it
only means that once the author tells me not to distribute it I have to do
so (and probably tell those I distributed it to). Figure it like a worm
propagating from the DFSG translation work to all copies and all people
re-distributing it turning it non-DFSG. That is a risk but one I would
gladly make if there is no threat by the author to do so.

I'm starting to get tired of this issue, it's just like bumping into a
wall. Why don't we recognise no one amongs us is a lawyer and try to bring
this issue up to a lawyer who knows international copyright laws? (not US,
we want something that applies to the whole Debian project, even if it's

I, on my behalf, will try to contact a spanish lawyer and get a say on
this. Believe, I've read the Intellectual Property law (all the way) for
more than a dozen times over the last four years. I've also done my work
on translations for the last five years including translations that were
copyrighted for spanish magazines.

If I'm unable to convince you guys on this issue then I better keep my
mouth shut.




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