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Re: Debian vs. Fedora on Laptops

norton@ic.unicamp.br wrote:
installer has too many problems. Once you get to the point of cataloging
your CDs, it can't find my CD ROM on any laptop. (2 Toshiba Satellites and
2 Gateway Solos) And my external CD ROM is useless with this distro.
that is really strange, for I have already installed in 2 laptops and got
no problem.

The 1st time that I installed Debian on an 8 year old Gateway Solo, it installed fine. But I couldn't access my external SCSI CD-ROM or hard drives. I then corrupted the system with additional programs. I would also run into programs where it could not find a program on my CDs. Then I wiped the drive and tried to re-install it again using the same CDs. After the basic system was installed, it could not find my CD Rome to catalog the CDs. I gave up and installed a different version of Linux.

I later came back to it, and tried to re-install Debian Sarge on this same computer. After the basic system was installed, it could not find my CD-ROM. I did manage to get everything installed and cataloged using an external CD-ROM. But the system got lost again when I went to add additional programs an could not find the external CD ROM. Frustrated, I wiped it again.

Afterwards, attempts to install Sarge or Woody resulted in the basic system being installed, but unable to find the CD-ROMs on any of the computer. I tried re-burning the same download, and re-downloading all 14 CDs. I always got the same result with any computer. Also, I couldn't get my external CD ROM to work with the installer afterwards. Different computers. Different CD ROMs. Different CDs. Different downloads. Different versions of the software. Same result. I gave up.

On the computer which I had Sarge installed on, I could not access any
SCSI devices, which I had several of. It also seemed to easy to corrupt
the system by installing the wrong program from one of the downloaded CDs.
again... never found it...

(Sarge comes with 14 CDs. People like me have no idea what most of those
programs are or how they are supposed to be used.)
yeah... but download only the 2 first... that was all I needed for one of
the laptops... the other I used a net install. But I agree that
documentation is really bad.

I think that Knoppix is probably the best distro, but FC3 comes in right
afterwards, and RH9 follows that. I might have a more favorable opinion of
Debian if it installed correctly, if it supported more hardware out of the
box, if it allowed me to log in as 'Root' (Which I sometimes need), and if
the software on the CDs worked without corrupting the operating system.
I understand your point, for these are precisely the reasons why I gave up
Fedora... it did not recognize half of my hardware. It could not even
switch off my laptop... with debian it was REALLY smooth... so, I guess we
were unlucky with some distros

But as you can see, my thoughts are not limited to Debian. I feel that
entire Linux scene is like a toy where children get things almost done,
then they loose interest and try to pass the buck on to someone else.
we know it is not like that... those guys are working for peanuts, and are
doing a bloody good job. Even Aple is using linux, and they have many good
guys working for them... so it is not like this.

I agree that linux lacks some humanities (hehe), like work from interface
guys and so... but so far the linux comunity is mainly composed by
technical guys... I think that is the main reason for the lack of
documentation and so.

When I was writing some shareware programs in the 1980's, documentation was always part of the program. The only people who were writing programs without documentation were the people who were employed in a corporate setting. In that case, the programs were simply in-house and they passed the information around. It appears the the inmates have escaped, or they have been training others in bad habits.
Plus, I really think that seeing linux as a service provider is wrong. I
think it is against its ideas. The thing that I like the most in linux is
that if I hate something, I change that something and make it better... is
it perfect? Well, if we were earning as much as the M$ guys it might be
closer to that... but considering everything, no, it is not perfect, but
it is unfair to label it as a child work.

>From my limited viewpoint, it appears that a majority of the software for Linux is directed towards the corporate IT community. This is the complete opposite of the programs written in the 1980's on DOS machines by home users for home users.

As for my opinion of "Child's work", every distro of any version of Linux comes with a lot of simple games. If Microsoft had only built computers for entertainment, it would not be where it is today.

As for high $$$$ in the Microsoft world, there are lots of people who make a living from selling a couple good programs which run on MS Windows machines. I happen to know one who wrote a half dozen small programs 10 years ago, and makes a living by constantly working to upgrade them. He doesn't make high $$$$, but he does make a living.
And if you worked with potato, woody and sarge, RH6, RH7... RH9, FC1 and
FC2, you will see an improvement. Geez, potato would make you cry... it
was a nightmare to install a network on RH6... today it is easier...

Things are improving... but here is my personal advice: wake up! stop
dreaming and start doing something ;-). That is precisely the linux idea.




>stop dreaming and start doing something

Here, you just hit the problem on the head. Most people are not programmers. Most people have other jobs and other interests. The computer is a vehicle to get from one point to another. The computer, in any fashion, is not the final goal. It is only a tool the same as a hammer is used by a carpenter. I think that this is the idea that the Linux community is going to have to embrace to get the majority of people to switch from Microsoft. Most people are not interested in writing programs, but are simple users. But as a simple user, if they like what they are using, then they are also advertisers without realizing it. This is the way that things grow. It is not from knowledgeable people that Linux will grow or fail. Instead, it will be from the un-knowledgeable ones.

Linux today is where Microsoft was in the 1980's or possibly the early 1990's, with one exception. Linux has a step up with the knowledge gained by Microsoft. Hopefully, the Linux community will not try to make the same mistakes.

I doubt that you will hear from me again. I have been spend a lot of my free time experimenting with Linux systems. Other things are pressing and requiring more of my time.


Lloyd Hayes

Email: lloyd545220-trucker@yahoo.com
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