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Re: [debian-knoppix] Analyzing Knoppix extra stuff (Was: knoppix/bootcd like software?)



Am Donnerstag, 13. März 2003 11:44 schrieb Andreas Tille:
>
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, sean finney wrote:
>
> This is exactly what I think about this issue.  This whole lot of packages
> with just one script or menu entry is confusing.  While thinking about
> handling this stuff the following procedure was coming into my mind:
>
>    Some stuff is needed even for very basic Knoppix derivates other only
>    for KDE-Menu stuff.  To handle this we would have to solutions:
>
>    1. Write a tool which can be controlled by commandline options to
>       handle different needs of the target Knoppix
>    2. Create a config file via debconf which contains the relevant
> information what should be included.
>
> The second solution has the advantage of easy to get GUI while depending
> more or less from root access (dpkg-reconfigure or edit /etc/knoppix.conf).
> Perhaps a combination of both might do the job best where options override
> configuration.

I agree that it is a good idea!

Ah, let me introduce myself first. 

I'm neither Klaus nor Christian, but know knx-hdinstall, knx-terminalserver 
and some other Knoppix-internal things ...

>
> > also, i think some of the packages may be able to be replaced by actual
> > debian-proper packages.  for example ash could be replaced by dash (or
> > some other static-linked shell), right?
>
> Definitely.

No! Not possible at the moment. See below.


> the current format i'm using is:
>
> packagename version license-type
> 	upstream url
> 	+ diff/modifications comment
> 	p packaging comment
> 	- other comment
>    (at)   additional comments by Andreas Tille
>         K target for future knopstrap package (see below)
>       RFP could someone check and issue an RFP bug if this makes sense for
> general use BTS Packages which might be necessary to enhance in Debian to
> fit Knoppix needs ! Attention to Klaus Knopper - please comment
>
> if i say it's "knoppix native", it's because Klaus Knopper was listed as
> the upstream author, or it was very apparent from the package that
> it's written specifically for knoppix (and not ported)
>
> also, i wouldn't take my assume that non-"native" sources haven't been
> modified just because they don't come with diffs, i think it would be
> good to verify against pristine sources from upstream.
>
> ash 0.2-3 BSD
> 	http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
> 	+ doesn't ship with a diff but still modified
> 	+ uses dietlibc instead of... libc5?
> 	+ has home-rolled version of rmmod
> 	p lintian: 1E, 1W
> 	p linda: 1E
> 	- replaced by ash 0.3.8-37 in woody
> 	- replaced by dash 0.4.10 (another port of ash) in sid
>    (at)   Klaus, could you comment whether a Debian native ash / dash would
> be OK?

It would not, as Klaus' ash also has an build-in "mount" command, which Klaus 
needs, because the boot.img should fit still on a floppy-disk. (1.44 MB is 
not much space, if you want to have many modules there)

However I think it would be good if a native small ash would be included and 
some "mount" from linuxassembly.org or so ... (should be small enough to 
still fit on the disk).

I think there could be other builtins, that one could guess from 
boot.img:miniroot.gz:linuxrc

echo "${CRE}${RED}Can't find KNOPPIX filesystem, sorry.${NORMAL}"
echo "${RED}Dropping you to a (very limited) shell.${NORMAL}"
echo "${RED}Press reset button to quit.${NORMAL}"
echo ""
echo "Additional builtin commands avaliable:"
echo "  cat        mount     umount"
echo "  insmod     rmmod     lsmod"

But I don't know at the moment, which would be in normal ash too ...

Please also note that the knopstrap-script must dynamically create this 
boot.img, the miniroot and copy the syslinux.cfg, boot-logo, etc.

I'm mentioning it only, because it was not in your list ... Or I have overseen 
it :-)

There is another issue that needs to be taken care of:

mkinitrd-script of debian will not work with standard knx-kernel.

As: - mkinitrd uses cramfs (not in knx-kernel).
      - mkinitrd uses mount and this does not work with Klaus' ash. (mount -nt 
is not accepted by the builtin mount for example.)
[So one needs to install the native ash; gave me a real headache when I tried 
to use ext3 with knoppix for the first time, also see archives if you are 
interested in the "discussion" :-)]

>
> hwsetup 1.0-10	GPL
> 	http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
> 	+ knoppix native
> 	p ftbfs, i think it's missing a Build-Depends entry
>         ! I'm unsure whether this should be integrated into knopstrap.
> Please could somebody comment on it?

hwsetup is the second part of the great hw-detection (first one ist 
/etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig). So it should be intregrated in each way, as 
this is the things that uses libkudzu or so and detects soundcards, 
graphicscards, ....

Necessary!


> knoppix-hdinstall	0.37-1	GPL
> 	http://www.itm.tu-clausthal.de/~perle/
> 	+ knoppix native
> 	p wierd, has tarfiles of its own files inside it
> 	K could Christian Perle please comment on this

I'm not Christian, but I know this script also.

Btw. Url is:

http://www.itm.tu-clausthal.de/~perle/knx/

It has templates of files in its own archive which are unpacked to 
/usr/local/lib/knx-templates-$SVERSION.tgz

This templates are needed for the new hd-installed system to be more like 
debian and no longer like knoppix. So cleaned up /etc/inittab, good 
runlevels, ...

There is also since version 0.30 some binary tiny version of pivot_root 
included [written by me] (Source available from above address), that is used 
by the script-internal "make initrd" to have it still fit on a floppy. (If 
user wants to make rescue-floppy during install this is necessary)

Btw. Is there a debian packet tiny-tools ? That included tiny-mount, 
tiny-pivot_root and so on ? 

> knoppix-terminalserver	0.5-9	GPL
> 	http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
> 	+ knoppix native
> 	p lintian: 4E, 3W
> 	p linda: 3E
> 	! I'm waiting for comments - might be a little bit nifty. I would love
> 	  to see this as real Debian package which might some developer sponsor

I would like this too ... Its a good idea, however there are some 
knoppix-specific things, like the boot wiht logging in user knppix and so on 
...

>
> netcardconfig-knoppix	0.5-9	GPL
> 	http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
> 	+ knoppix native
> 	p lintian: 3E, 2W
> 	p linda: 2E
> 	! I'm unsure if it might be possible to include it into Debian native
> 	  network setup??? Klaus, any comments?

It is a really, really nice tool! I would like an include!

> sndconfig-knoppix	0.57-7	GPL
> 	ftp://ftp.redhat.com/redhat/redhat-7.0/SRPMS/i386/SRPMS/sndconfig-0.57-2.s
>rc.rpm p ftbfs, missing some Build-Depends
> 	! seems to be quite unmaintained by RedHat (CVS unchanged since years)
> 	  Any comments whether it might make sense to build a Debian package??

Its nice and works.

Hope that helps!

cu

Fabian
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