[debian-knoppix] Knoppix as Debian installer (was: Why so much swap with knx-install?)
On Sat, Jan 25, 2003 at 04:25:03PM -0500, Gilles Pelletier wrote:
> > With RedHat dropping support for the SPARC architecture, Debian
> > seems to be about the only choice left for Linux in heterogenous
> > networks. (Even Windows NT started out with supporting several
> > architectures. For MS, dropping support was the right thing to do,
> > revenue-wise. Does it mean the user was better off? No.)
>
> If I ever got into the pains of buying SPARC based computer, I do believe I
> would use Sun software. Most probably Debian developpers will keep
> developping SPARC when even Sun will have stopped doing so. Meanwhile, it's
> just another excuse for the eternal "it's ready when it's ready".
Well, I do agree with the general attitude of "it's ready when it's
ready", but I would not delay releasing a ready version of i386 packages
(or any other architecture) that's ready, because some of the others are
not at that time. Just my personal opinion. I would maybe decide
differently if I had a sparc or mac. ;-)
> > And I also see nothing wrong with asking newbies "Got an i386? Want
> > easy installation? Get Knoppix.
>
> Ask Klaus if Knoppix is meant as an installer for Debian.
Answer: Knoppix (the mainstream version that you can download from the
mirrors) is not designed to be an installer for Debian. ;-)
There are other versions, however, that are specifically designed to
install and customize a master image of a previously created Debian
installation with no interaction. Paid work for customers, who
decide on their own if they want to release it publically or not.
But in fact, Christain's script does a pretty good job, and many people
find it useful for an initial install of a current Debian snapshot.
The supplied /etc/apt/sources.list should contain everything that's needed
for updates and additional installs. The knx-hdinstall script needs a
lot of enhancement though, in my opinion, before you could really call
it a Debian installer. Package selection, a better partitioning GUI,
a better way to ask for user passwords, for example.
> I tried the 31st of
> October version and there were still problems that prevented me to use
> Knoppix as my "on-disk" distro. The main problem was with a rather shrunken
> mtab.
This should be solved now.
mount -f / in the original checkroot.sh init script was acting strange if
you don't call it with an existing but empty mtab, in the previous versions.
See version 20-01-2003 where mtab should now be correct after HD
installation.
> I believe this problem has now been solved with the present version and
> I'm looking forward to give it a try again when KDE 3.1 comes out.
Whenever that will be. ;-)
(I'm waiting for the sid packages with TTF support compiled with g++
3.2, and the kde-i18n translations for all supported languages).
> Still, since hwdata is there for the taking, I don't understand why Debian
> doesn't use it. (Klaus has never been ashamed of taking from Debian and even
> Red Hat!)
Why should I? It is free software and I have no political preference.
> It wouldn't prevent sysadmins from using the Debian's script...
> thought I doubt they would. If a real sysadmin should be able to install any
> distro even without a script, in the real world, speed is often an issue.
The hardware detection of Knoppix is a little different to implement in
a Debian installer CD, because it consists not only of the libkudzu
detection library, but also of a C program (hwsetup) that loads the
modules for all detected and supported cards automatically, several
shellscripts that build the fstab and /etc/X11/XF86Config*, plus some
scripts that are called on demand (hotplug-knoppix) when a new device is
plugged in. Someone at our LinuxTag/FSF meeting today wanted to have a
look at those scripts and may try to write an all-in-one C program that
could maybe be used for installation purposes, but so far, the hardware
detection is quite Knoppix-specific and primarily designed for a live
system. I can well understand that some of the Debian team don't see a
possibility to use the Knoppix HW detection for the Debian installer in
its current form.
> I have no hard feeling against Debian. I know how much its developpers have
> contributed to the community but, IMHO, something is going berserk these
> days.
There are different opinions in every large project. This is normal,
and not a bad thing. Diversity is good. :-)
> Note: I don't intend on pursuing this discussion. I've never succeeded in
> having a Debian devotee agree that there is something less than perfect about
> Debian. So all this is just IMHO. We'll see how things turn out.
Exactly.
Regards
-Klaus
--
Klaus Knopper Technical Solutions & Finances
knopper@linuxtag.org http://www.linuxtag.org/
Phone +49-(0)631-3109371 Fax +49-(0)631-3109372
LinuxTag 2003 - Europes largest Linux Expo Where .com meets .org
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