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Re: Password file with over 3000 users.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 12:08:29PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Craig Sanders wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 08:13:40PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > 
> >> And I do as well think that those locally
> >> written script ARE broken.
> > 
> > then you would be wrong.
> > 
> > on debian, /bin/sh has been bash for over a decade.  that's an historical
> > fact.  changing it now would break things for no good reason.
> > those who want dash can easily have it. those who don't do not need to
> > be disturbed.
> No need to repeat, everybody got your point that it's been a decade, and
> that people can choose, but you want the default being the same thing as
> before, with no change possible.

i just posted the following few paragraphs to someone else in private
mail. maybe they'll help you to see the point:

it is incumbent on those who are proposing a change to demonstrate:

1. that the change has significant benefits
2. that the change does not cause problems
3. that the benefits greatly outweigh the problems caused
4. that there is no viable alternative to the proposed change

changing bash to dash as the default shell fails on all four counts:
there are no significant benefits, changing it would cause problems,
the benefits do NOT greatly outweigh the problems, and point 4 fails
because there is a viable alternative (those who want dash can install
it themselves).

in short, don't do unneccessary harm and don't violate the principle of
least surprise.

> > no, it's a *stupid* extension of mine, not a "natural" extension.
> >
> > it's what is known as "grasping at straws". indicating irrationality and
> > desperation. your argument holds no water, and you know it - hence the
> > descent into absurd projection.
> This reminds me the SORBS thread, and ... godwin! :)
> Clearly, when somebody (if not a majority) do not agree with you, you
> start to be aggressive. There's absolutely no point in insulting others,
> and it seems you are the only one playing that game here... Please think
> twice before using words like: stupid, irrationality, or absurd when
> writing to others in public lists.

i'll use those words (or indeed, ANY words i choose) when i consider them to
be accurate.

> It's really a shame to read this when I see many very good comments from
> you helping others, showing that you are far from being stupid, and that
> your brain is full of knowledge. A bit of respect wouldn't have kill
> you, even if you don't agree.

respect is earned, not an automatic entitlement.

it's extremely difficult to have respect for stupid propositions or those who
are proposing them.

> Stop wining and upgrade your *broken* scripts.

they aint my scripts, and they aint broken.

btw, regardless of what POSIX sh should or shouldn't be, on debian,
/bin/sh has always been bash. and has been documented as being bash.
see "man sh" - it clearly states that it is bash and it documents the
features of bash. it is entirely reasonable for a debian user to use the
features AS DOCUMENTED, whether you or POSIX or anyone else thinks that
is "correct" behaviour or not.


craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

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