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Re: We have a problem



On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 02:50:29PM -0400, Patrick Ouellette wrote:
> Actually, I don't care who is in the uploaders list.  The thing I am
> concerned with is Iain's lack of notifying even the people he *knows* are
> responsive he is changing their role with respect to a package.
> 
> The issue has nothing to do with the uploaders list (except that is the latest
> change made), and everything to do with cooperating with a group maintained
> package environment.  A simple email to the list stating "hey, I'm about to
> upload a new version of package x.  I've added/removed the following people.
> If you want to be added or removed please let me know" - that's all it would
> have taken - a courtesy to people who may be interested in such changes before
> they are made.  The same as "I'm working on a new version of package <>, does
> anyone else have changes" is useful to send before you start updating a package
> to keep everyone up to date.
> 
> Pat 

Hey Pat,

I'm Dave, MM3ZRZ - we've not met but I've been hanging around in the
fringes for some time now, doing wee bits and bobs to help out here and
there and taking an active interest in this part of the Debian project
as a place to get my toes wet.

I've been watching this discussion unfold over my afternoon and evening
in both my inbox and on irc and it's been very disheartening to see
active members of the project address each other in such a manner.

To address what is directly above - what you have raised is a very valid
point regarding common courtesy to members of the team. Yes - an
email to the list or in private before the package was uploaded would
have been considerate, but as has been intimated already it was
discussed in IRC and approved by those active.

This is not Iain's failing alone - it belongs to all of us that were in
the channel who didn't consider this might be an issue. Sorry about
that.

However, I would like to add a few observations of my own to the mud
slinging contest in what is hopefully a constructive manner.

The initial email from yourself that triggered this tirade:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-hams/2015/05/msg00060.html

Did not suggest that you were annoyed that a team breakdown in
communication had occurred - it reads as an attack on an enthusiastic
and excited member of the team.

Perhaps a more constructive approach would have been to bring the
grievance about communication to the team as it is written above and
state you were unhappy with Iain's actions, allowing everyone else their
window to justify this instead of argue and defend against what looks
like a personal attack.


Moving further back in history to soundmodem - You assert that Iain had
not done his research correctly and that he was determined to remove the
package based on bad information. You also request that Iain does more
research when he makes assertions on your involvement in packages.

Please do not assert what you do not know - this advice goes to Iain and
all others too. It only serves to enflame embedded opinions and rile
others into unproductive bullet point arguments as we've seen today.

For what little it's worth at this stage, I can attest to Iain
researching this to the best of his ability and relying on many others
to come to this conclusion. Emailing the developer - I don't know if he
did this or not - however it is good advice and a lesson learned for him
to take forward as an aspiring Debian Developer, as well as for the rest
of us.

Winding the clock futher back still to ax25-node and it's proposal for
removal from Debian, which has been passively referenced today:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=778843

You closed this bug report with a brief statement, despite the report
being sent to this mailing list, a perfect platform for discussion
before actions are taken with little to no explanation. In future,
would you be willing to discuss things like this in more detail before
the final action is taken?

Others could learn from the advice and history all our Debian Developers
can give in these discussions, and we can have a paper trail for decisions
that may affect the future of the Debian Project in place of confusion
and a bad taste.

To continue the arguments at this stage would be folly - we appear to
be drawing lines for battle instead of working as a team.

Thanks for your time and feedback - I hope in future we can all work
together as a coherent unit bonded by our passions and friendship.

Dave

-- 
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