Re: galeon (not) in Debian stable
<quote who="Sven Luther">
> > Dude, neither choice was political in nature.
>
> Each choice of one of the branches of a fork is political in nature, even
> if you base it on technical decisions and such.
Jeez dude, different things make sense to different people. There's nothing
political about this.
> > Read the release team's module summary for a pretty good analysis of why
> > both GNOME and Red Hat chose to make a commitment to - independently I might
> > add - Epiphany as their default browser. Galeon was never dumped: GNOME has
> > never shipped a browser, Red Hat has previously shipped Mozilla.
>
> Any url to it ?
Ah, so, you've obviously done your research on this topic too. Good to hear.
http://gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=1195
> > Despite some disagreement with specific choices that the Epiphany team
> > have made, it is the right choice. It has a stronger team, dedicated
> > maintainers,
>
> Well, i don't think so, And it is ironic, don't you fing, that the
> epiphany people are now adding all the features the fork was about back
> then, like mouse gestures and so on.
>
> Also, it is because of the aims and choices that so many people where
> very unhappy about galeon 1.3 featurelessness. And epiphany doesn't even
> has the personal toolbar stuff, which is sort of going backward.
Do your research. They're not. There is an extensions mechanism that allows
for this stuff, and some extensions are already in development. The goals of
the project are 100% compatible with this.
> And on top of that, they hijacked the epiphany name from the boulderdash
> clone which has been in debian for years, but then, so has the phoenix
> project with the firebird name.
Hijacked? Far out dude, get a grip. "Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity." Or in this case, ignorance or
even irrelevance.
> Not to forget that the lead epiphany developer is targeting, not your
> average debian user, but his grandmother who is not computer literate.
> This may be all well for gnome and its new corporate market target, but
> it is wrong for debian to make such statement, and has already alienated
> a big part of the galeon userbase.
>
> Disclaimer : notice that the same can be said for most of gnome, but you
> get used to it some, and there are other tools, but i bet that most
> people which mades such critics about gnome2 where primarily concerned
> about the galeon 1.3 state.
Rant, rant, rant, and grossly uninformed to boot.
> It was lamentable, because there could have been a compromise made, and
> it was not, and thus the teams did split, and galeon was refused as part
> of gnome 2.2 and so on.
If you had any comprehension of the work done to forge a compromise, you'd
be more understanding of the end results. Everyone works to avoid forks. It
was inevitable and unavoidable in this case. Sure, I'm disappointed too, but
I'm quite happy now that it's all over. Good things have come of it.
> > fork as such. Not by a long shot. We now have a maintainable browser, and a
> > strong developer team, with a LOT of momentum.
>
> Normal, they hijacked the galeon developer base, no ?
"Hijacked" again? Far out. The lead developer of Galeon left to pursue
another browser project. As far as I know, no considerable number of other
Galeon developers have joined the Epiphany project.
> > Right now, I still use Galeon. But it's becoming very clear that Epiphany is
> > (faster|better|stabler|etc), and that at some stage, I should shift.
>
> Because there is more development effort put in it, but the same could
> have been said if there would not have been work. And frankly, could you
> tell me the main feature difference between galeon and epiphany ? The
> bookmark handling of epiphany, which could has well have been
> implemented in a branch and then incorporated in galeon or something ?
You know what? It doesn't matter. Go and be bitter somewhere else.
> The lousy preference editor of epiphany, which did go a big step
> backward from what we had in galeon under the HIG dictatorship ? Even
> evolution implements something similar.
It is a remarkably clear preferences dialogue for an application that does
not require a significant number of preferences. Nautilus has more, and it
is designed in exactly the same manner (using standard tabs). Evolution uses
a different design because its structure - which, importantly, includes user
and account information as well as preferences - necessitates it.
"HIG dicatatorship"? Perhaps you haven't read the clear, lucid and flexible
Human Interface Guidelines... It certainly sounds as if you're railing on
yet another topic you haven't paid much attention to.
> > Please don't spread gunk like this as if it is the truth.
>
> Go read the october archives of the galeon mailing list then.
Regardless of where you feel you were informed about these matters, you are
wrong. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
> Supporting epiphany over galeon, and the whole fork was an error, and now
> we are paying for it.
Again, you are wrong. Both Epiphany and Galeon are far better off after the
fork: The Epiphany hackers are free to build their vision of a GNOME web
browser without lengthy flamewars about feature removal, the Galeon hackers
are free to build their vision of a GNOME web browser without having a
project lead who wants to move in a different direction, and the flamewars
that go along with that.
Both projects and their contributors are now free to kick arse, without a
lot of emotional baggage. If you can't understand why that's a good thing,
you have *no idea* how much of a struggle it was to get to this point, and
how much the development of the GNOME browsers has been arrested by idiotic
flaming.
> Removing galeon from debian/sarge would be an error too, and i hope it
> does not happen.
The funny thing is, even if there were *absolutely valid* technical or QA
reasons to defer the inclusion of Galeon in sarge, I'm sure you would make a
lovely little conspiracy theory about it. As it happens, there is no reason
to defer the inclusion of Galeon in sarge.
- Jeff
--
linux.conf.au 2004: Adelaide, Australia http://lca2004.linux.org.au/
"But in the software world, that's daily business." - Kent Beck
"That's pissing money away and leaving scar tissue." - Alan Cooper
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