Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:00:01PM +0200, Philipp Huebner wrote:
> On 25/10/10 01:31, Klaus Knopper wrote:
> > None of us can "integrate CipUX into Skolelinux". We need an official
>
> Yes you can!
That's always nice to hear, over and over again. My problem is that from
personal experience, I lost my faith in believing in that
over-simplified motivational phrase when just nothing happens after
almost 3 years of vain efforts from our developers to assemble a larger
group of Skolelinux developers for the team, endless discussions + a lot
of contraversity about "which is the right way" instead of working on
concrete solutions for real problems.
My motto is now rather "do it yourself and publish your results, it may
happen that someone gets interested and wants to join". Keep in mind
that we cannot justify for schools who want their installation happen in
time for the new school year to begin, that we have to wait for the
community to make a decision, or for official maintainers to take over a
package.
Hey, what about you? You are an official DM, aren't you? ;-)
> > Debian-Edu maintainer to do this. None of our developers is capable of
> > making an official decision on which packages go into Skolelinux and
> > which don't (at least I don't recall having one in our group yet). We
> > WISH that all of our stuff goes into Skolelinux as optional add-on some
> > day, as soon as it's complete (and most of it is), but we are not the
> > decision makers here.
>
> The usual procedure so far has been that somebody prepared a new feature
> and gave the others the possibility to test and then judge it.
> Since the work is done in SVN, the change could be easily reverted if
> neglected.
So, your statement is that only if the CipUX team would transfer all of
its development platforms to Skolelinux/Debian-alioth, it will happen
that CipUX is recognized as an official option for LDAP account
administration in Skolelinux? Is this really the procedure? I think not.
Why can't Skolelinux instead check out from the official CipUX
repositories and Debian packages for testing? Was Jonas work on Debian
packages a waste of time?
> Debian Edu is a rather open project.
So are the majority of Free Software projects.
> If you would like to join, simply
> contribute to the project via bugzilla and alioth and additionally ask
> for an account on the developer machines.
I know the procedure of joining Skolelinux, but apparently, it did not
work for CipUX.
> AFAIK, there are no strictly defined rules who may decide on Skolelinux
> features.
Probably, but I can rather live with a definite decision NOT to include
CipUX in Skole, than uncertainty and doubt. We will continue using CipUX
in the RLP project unless Skolelinux comes up with something more useful
and compatible with our subprojects.
> Those who care take part in the discussions and the majority decides.
> At least that is what I experienced and how I got to Debian Edu.
It's good that it worked for you. Although it may sound this way, I'm
not bitter about that it did not work out that way for CipUX and the RLP
extensions, but still looking forward for it to happen even some day
after our official project end.
> >> So the question I agreed to is:
> >> "Why are the people using it in Rheinland-Pfalz, are not activly working
> >> on integrating CipUX in skolelinux?"
> >>
> >>> What is "this"?
> >>
> >> " integrating CipUX in skolelinux"
> >
> > So, again, what is "integrating CipUX in Skolelinux" other than deciding
> > that existing installable packages are accepted and possibly modified in
> > their initial setup so that they fit in? How can we do this? Not only
> > for CipUX but also for italc and linbo (which are independent of CipUX)?
>
> => SVN on alioth
Sorry, I don't think you can demand from all Free Software projects to
exclusively work on the Debia-Edu SVN in order to get recognized at all.
> There is a big difference between packages being available in Debian and
> them being set up and pre-configured correctly with the Debian Edu
> installer.
Apparently, the CipUX-Team alone was not able to address these necessary
changes on its own, and needs help from the Skolelinux community.
> > Unfortunately, the developer base working on CipUX itself is very small,
> > but, as Jonas already said, the core parts of CipUX are already in
> > Debian.
> >
> > What needs to be changed in order to make these packages fit into an
> > official Debian blend, needs to be done by an official Debian-Edu
> > maintainer, or am I wrong here? It's not sufficient that our packages
> > run fine on our own Skolelinux installations.
>
> I already tried to describe it above: the description "official
> Debian-Edu maintainer/developer" doesn't fit reality.
> Basically anybody who supports Skolelinux and who's work is appreciated
> by the existing contributors can get an account and call himself a
> Debian Edu Developer.
> There's nothing like the Debian NM process in place for Debian Edu.
Again, the CipUX team called for help, and all they get seems to be, in
my point of view, motivational statements that demand developers to do
this by themselves, plus switch to the Debian-Edu platform for
development which is extra work with no positive effect.
> If you want to do work for Skolelinux, get started!
Sorry, to disappoint you. No, I do not want to work for Skolelinux
exclusively. We want to work together with Skolelinux in form of a
cooperation, develop our addons in time. We try to make packages ready
for use WITH Skolelinux, but just don't have the possibility yet to do
this IN Skolelinux. We tried.
> There is nothing that holds you back, except for your imagination (and
> probably your time).
Maybe it is really just my imagination, call me evil, but so far it
seemed that we had to do everything about Skolelinux all on our own with
little or no help from the Skolelinux community because we do it "the
wrong way" (from the view of quite a few people on this list). And
unfortunately, we can't wait for any magic to happen.
> >>> What does it mean?
> >>
> >> Making CipUX being on the install medium and provide it ready to use and
> >> preconfigured at first boot after installation.
> >
> > So, how can I make CipUX "appear" on the official Skolelinux install
> > medium?
>
> Make it a working alternative by working on the SVN and thus making it
> appear on the install media.
Please try to convince the CipUX developers.
I can offer to create a mirrored repository for linbo on alioth (linbo
is currently on a sourceforge SVN), but sources for one kernel version
alone are about 2GB in size (linbo is a complete OS with applications).
If you are willing to spend that much space for something that's already
in an SVN elsewhere, if it helps to get linbo into Skolelinux, just let
me know.
italc-rlp is not that large, but since it is a fork of italc and loosely
depends (or recommends) CipUX, this may again be some kind of
philosophical problem, isn't it?
> Of course it requires some time until you have figured out how the
> Debian Edu Installer works.
I'm always willing to learn.
So far, we have a working apt repository on rp.skolelinux.de, and an
addon-CD that includes our stuff.
> Andreas B. Mundt has done this with gosa in a rather short time and an
> excellent way I think.
> You could simply follow his example.
It's not that simple, I'm afraid. It's simple on a technical level.
Regards
-Klaus
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