Re: Please stop hating on sysvinit (was Re: do packages depend on lexical order or {daily,weekly,monthly} cron jobs?)

[Alf Gaida <agaida@siduction.org>]

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 19:10:42 +0200
Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> wrote:
> For servers, the benefit is rather limited. There is no local user who
i don't agree - systemd just work™ in the most cases. Without changing
a bit.
> The "desktop" and "server" use cases are so vastly different that it
> doesn't make sense to try to squeeze both into a single design,
No. They aren't.
> It is way more useful to have multiple alternatives that fit their
> respective use cases well than one thing that attempts to do
> everything.
No.
> > So then the question boils down to what kind of feature
> > development sysvinit *in Debian* is willing to do to do that. If the
No, it don't. We need sysvinit for some non-linux things and some
enthusiasts that are not switched to devuan yet - it would be sane to
abandon sysvinit, kfreebsd and the hurd alltogether or split them out.
Only my point of view.
> The sanest thing we could do in Debian is to teach start-stop-daemon
> to parse systemd .service files and pull its command line arguments
No. The sanest thing would be to consider systemd as winning system and
improve it - and let sysv bitrot.

> For that to happen, we'd have to define .service files as an API
> though, which would feature-freeze them, and I'm not sure the systemd
> people would be happy about that.
No one would be happy about. Blocking upstream development or trying to
be more clever than upstream is generally a bad idea. And i really like
the idea.
> System-wide systemd-only services past the early boot stage are just
> bad design, do not currently exist and we shouldn't encourage their
> creation.
And why. elaborate it a bit more ...

Cheers Alf

PS: I'm not a systemd fanboi - i just use it - and i'm happy that it
goes out of my way most of the time - on desktop and servers. And i'm
an old fart, so i know the time before systemd well - to be honest, if
someone would turn back time i would abandon Linux and go back to some
sane system like Windows. I just don't want one minute on sysv anymore.
In Linux it is dead for the vast majority - and i'm thankful for.

-- 
Alf Gaida
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