On Sat, 2014-11-08 at 23:30 -0500, Michael Gilbert wrote: > No accusation, just a statement of fact. Four ctte members were > complicit in the vote [0] Well maybe I read that ruling wrong, but didn't it more or less say "we're not deciding anything right now"? And even if that decision would be the sole reason for Joey to leave (which I don't know whether it is, but I'd guess it's probably not)... the tech-ctte member probably decide to their best knowledge. And especially they cannot, nor should say, make their decision based on the fear that otherwise XYZ might leave. And I'm absolutely *not* implying that this happened here - but since you accuse the tech-ctte (or some of it's members) to be responsible for Joey to leave, it probably needed to be said. > No, the fire is not systemd, it is the politicization of the project > via ctte and GR rather than patient evolution of the best technical > solution. And you really believe that this would have been ever solved by evolution? I strongly doubt. You see how some people insist on sysvinit these days - sometimes (not always) it looks they'd only do so to be against systemd. You also see how many people were in favour of upstart - and I doubt that Shuttleworth would have basically killed the project as he did (quite quickly) after the decision, though he could have prevented so many useless fights from happening in Debian... o.O All of these systems were capable of booting a Linux,... and you really think one of them would have won sooner or later by technical evolution? I doubt. The technical superior system was IMHO rather clear from the beginning,... and it were political reasons that prevented it from winning immediately. > >> The legitimacy of the technical committee has been entirely destroyed > >> by misguided acts over the last year. > > > > Well others would say that decisions had to be made, and the best that > > was possible might have been done? > > Sometimes the best decision is none at all. Sometimes,... but in many other cases it's also the worst choice. We have so many things that would have never come true if not a single decision in favour of them would have been made. Basically everything which spans more than a few (unrelated) packages needs this. Look at the controversial proposals for some security things I've made in the past,... I usually had the feeling that people in principle agreed that it would be a good thing to take action there, but since all of them require quite some work in many fields and no decision was made, nothing of these will ever be solved. > It can sometimes take a > lot of time for the right solution to evolve, but that requires > patience, and the project seems to have lost that quality. This can however also mean that we always stand still, and just pursue the evolutions that others made. Never wondered why things like systemd or upstart didn't originate in Debian? Cheers, Chris.
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