Le 15/11/2014 14:18, Ralf Jung a écrit : > You have a point here. But I think that the case is different for > services that the average user hardly ever faces. People who do manual > network configuration beyond NetworkManager, are more than capable of > installing another suite for that if necessary (not that it looks like > /etc/network/interfaces will cease to function anytime soon). Everybody > else uses whatever Gnome/KDE/... provides and doesn't care how the magic > happens in the background. That's precisely the point. If systemd is installed as default on every jessie system, since it ships its own time syncing client, what's the point of installing NTP (provided that the machine doesn't have to provide time services to other hosts) ? That's exactly what a well-known software company did to push its web browser by taking advantage of its dominant position on the OS market. And that's what systemd is doing with every component it intends to "offer" a replacement for. >>> Even syslog is still working! >> >> No, it's not: > [...] > > Well, systemd has bugs, nobody doubts that. FWIW, I never saw this > happen on my machine. If you already ditched syslog, it obviously won't happen... You wouldn't be of such bad faith, would you ? ;) Just kidding. More seriously, you avoided to comment on the real issues: is it a good sign of code quality (for the whole project) if the piece of code which is supposed to communicate with syslog doesn't even wait for it to be ready ? And more importantly, is it the quality level that Debian has accustomed us to ? We're not talking of an optional Perl library that will be used in a 100 lines home-made script, but of the basic foundations that every jessie(+x) systems will be built upon. We're not talking of a small bug in a maintainer's script that can be fixed in a an update during the freeze, but of a design choice in upstream code that results in crippled logs for people who don't want binary logs. That's not like Debian (or at least the Debian we all know and love) to adopt this kind of software as the default init system. -- Raphaël Halimi
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