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Re: Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop


Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:
> Disagree. His statement is very clear. I guess everyone who has
> followed the development of G3 is well aware of the - let's say -
> disagreements that have poped up continuously.

I have. I am. The term "not neutral" is very ill-chosen for "they made
choices some people disagreed with" (which really is just another way to
say "they made choices").

> If you are asking for another flame war, you can have it.

I am not. But it is nice to see you aknowledge that this is really all
you are doing.

>> > Of course I have no real numbers! What I've said is just my personal 
>> > opinion, based on that I've seen a lot of flame wars about GNOME 3 on 
>> > the web, and a non-zero count of forks/derivatives of GNOME 3 all aiming 
>> > at providing a "more classic" environment (MATE, Cinnamon, Consort, 
>> > Budgie).
>> Your personal opinion is certainly not an argument that needs to be
>> taken into consideration for deciding on a default for debian,
>> especially if it is formed on such dubious grounds.
> So *your* personal opinion is any better?

No. Nor did I claim it to be.

>> > I don't want to discuss the specific usability aspects of GNOME 3, but 
>> > note there are NO such flame wars about XFCE :)
>> I am unsure about this statement, but if it is, I think this might very
>> well be more a reflection on the people who started those flames and
>> forks, than on any technical merrits XFCE might have over GNOME.
> So what do you want to say? I guess a simple "google-that-for-me"
> should show you thousands of flame-war like threads, blogs, whatever
> discussing the (de-)merits of G3.
> Now, tell me something similar from XFCE?

I clearly stated (and am willing to repeat once) that I am unsure about
this statement. I did not claim it to be false, nor do I now, nor am I
willing to spend any time on it whatsoever (this includes doing a single
google-search). I demonstrated that by saying, that I don't believe it
to be relevant, as in my experience the existence of flames about a
topic have no correlation whatsoever to actual technical merrits. I
thank you once again to prove my point by demonstrating, how little
respect these flames actually deserve by starting one again.

> And finally, let me know he is discussing *personal* opinions?

I assume you mean "s/he/who/" in this case? In that case, I am, as
clearly stated. It was an opinion about whether or not flames, heresay
and very much opinianated "arguments" by people demonstrably spreading
FUD have any place in this discussion.

Note: I use neither GNOME nor XFCE. From what I heard, most people who
actually used GNOME 3 for more than a few minutes didn't hate it, but
that just my anecdotal evidence. As is my suspicion, that the vast
majority of people who actually chose GNOME for it's technical merrits
over XFCE are not people who will ever be participating in really *any*
flamewar, as they are the population who like for "just work" and are
non-technical people. But well, yes, I have no numbers on this either,
so it probably shouldn't count as an argument too ;)

Enough trollfeeding,

Axel Wagner

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