Re: let's split the systemd binary package
* Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> [131024 15:06]:
> ]] Marvin Renich
>
> > I believe that systemd/GNOME upstream is intentionally coupling the two
> > in order to force adoption of systemd.
>
> You're aware that GNOME and systemd upstreams are two completely
> distinct groups with (AFAIK) very little overlap between them, right?
> Even if one assume that they are intentionally coupling the two of them
> tightly, I fail to see a motive on the GNOME maintainers. They have no
> obvious interest in making systemd ubiquitous.
* Olav Vitters <olav@vitters.nl> [131024 16:12]:
> GNOME is not. And I'm speaking as a GNOME release team member.
>
> A video of GNOME 3.10 running on OpenBSD:
> https://www.bsdfrog.org/tmp/gnome310.webm
>
> A link to the GNOME release team members:
> https://wiki.gnome.org/ReleasePlanning/Membership
>
> Don't think I need to list the main systemd developers.
I was aware that they were separate projects, but was mistakenly under
the impression that there were some key developers who contributed to
both projects. I was wrong, and you have my apologies for attributing
ulterior motives to you that you do not have.
* Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> [131024 15:06]:
> ]] Marvin Renich
>
> > There are obviously others who do not believe this. If it is true,
> > however, I would consider it sufficient justification to both change
> > Debian's default DE and eliminate systemd as a candidate for the
> > default init system, regardless of any technical merits.
>
> I have no idea how you get from «GNOME upstream couples their software
> tightly to systemd interfaces» to «systemd should not be a candidate for
> being a default init system».
>
> GNOME upstream makes their own decisions on what interfaces they use.
> They choose to depend on particular interfaces, and they should carry
> the burden for that. Not the depended-on component.
If my mistaken belief were true, then «systemd should not be a candidate for
being a default init system» would follow from «I do not want the default
init system to be one that is developed by people whom I cannot trust».
However, it is obviously true that systemd as the default init
system is controversial, and that GNOME depends on it. While GNOME may
work with systemd installed but not PID 1 at the moment, in another
message Uoti Urpala says that systemd as PID 1 will be required in an
upcoming release. If this is true, regardless of motives, then
if GNOME is the default DE, systemd will be the de facto default init
system. The default init system should be decided _before_ the DE, not
_by_ the DE.
...Marvin
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