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Re: duplicates in the archive

WHOOPS, SORRY.  Meant to delete this old draft, not send it.
The issue is valid, but sorry for incomplete mail.

On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:48:01PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:23:38AM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:38:42PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > > Which wm does that? I know it isn't gnome-shell at least, as I've been
> > > > using it quite successfully without nm installed.
> > > Have you tried to use evolution without NM?
> Evolution seems to work just fine.
> > I didn't try but it only suggests network-manager. However some applications do
> > behave weird if you just deinstalled n-m (pidgin for instance), because they
> > assume that you're not connected. After a reboot (maybe dbus restart is enough)
> > they certainly connect again, though.
> I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are no
> regressions at all.  The only differences are:
> * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh)
[was incomplete]
  * "network settings" deep in the control panel will say the networking on
    this system is not compatible

Since n-m breaks actually working software (udev, ifupdown) for non-obscure
uses (connecting a phone via USB, bridged setups, non-basic VPNs, etc), a
desktop environment hard-depending on it is bad, and this really needs to be
a Recommends: relationship instead.

N-M compared to ifupdown:
* makes things easier for new users (good! especially in a default install)
* is said to make wifi easier (when it works...)
And downsides:
* breaks usb0 completely (keeps raising and lowering the interface in a
  loop, no apparent way to tell it to keep its grubby hands away)
* breaks a load of complex setups

"Breaks unrelated software" on the system is a RC severity, and there's no
way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking. 
Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to
Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix.  It will cause n-m to be installed
unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be.

On the other hand, breaking such setups is not a RC bug in n-m.  Like any
non-core package, there is no requirement for it to be universal:
* not working with complex setups is at most wishlist
* breaking USB networking by flipping the interface is normal
It's just gnome-meta hard-depending on it what's wrong.

I was born an ugly, dumb and work-loving child, then an evil midwife
replaced me in the crib.

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