WHOOPS, SORRY. Meant to delete this old draft, not send it. The issue is valid, but sorry for incomplete mail. On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:48:01PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:23:38AM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:38:42PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote: > > > > Which wm does that? I know it isn't gnome-shell at least, as I've been > > > > using it quite successfully without nm installed. > > > Have you tried to use evolution without NM? > > Evolution seems to work just fine. > > > I didn't try but it only suggests network-manager. However some applications do > > behave weird if you just deinstalled n-m (pidgin for instance), because they > > assume that you're not connected. After a reboot (maybe dbus restart is enough) > > they certainly connect again, though. > > I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are no > regressions at all. The only differences are: > > * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh) [was incomplete] * "network settings" deep in the control panel will say the networking on this system is not compatible Since n-m breaks actually working software (udev, ifupdown) for non-obscure uses (connecting a phone via USB, bridged setups, non-basic VPNs, etc), a desktop environment hard-depending on it is bad, and this really needs to be a Recommends: relationship instead. N-M compared to ifupdown: * makes things easier for new users (good! especially in a default install) * is said to make wifi easier (when it works...) And downsides: * breaks usb0 completely (keeps raising and lowering the interface in a loop, no apparent way to tell it to keep its grubby hands away) * breaks a load of complex setups "Breaks unrelated software" on the system is a RC severity, and there's no way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking. Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix. It will cause n-m to be installed unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be. On the other hand, breaking such setups is not a RC bug in n-m. Like any non-core package, there is no requirement for it to be universal: * not working with complex setups is at most wishlist * breaking USB networking by flipping the interface is normal It's just gnome-meta hard-depending on it what's wrong. -- I was born an ugly, dumb and work-loving child, then an evil midwife replaced me in the crib.
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