> WHOOPS, SORRY. Meant to delete this old draft, not send it.
> The issue is valid, but sorry for incomplete mail.
> On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 04:48:01PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:23:38AM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:38:42PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> > > > > Which wm does that? I know it isn't gnome-shell at least, as I've
> > > > > been using it quite successfully without nm installed.
> > > >
> > > > Have you tried to use evolution without NM?
> > Evolution seems to work just fine.
> > > I didn't try but it only suggests network-manager. However some
> > > applications do behave weird if you just deinstalled n-m (pidgin for
> > > instance), because they assume that you're not connected. After a
> > > reboot (maybe dbus restart is enough) they certainly connect again,
> > > though.
> > I tested a good part of Gnome today without n-m and it appears there are
> > no regressions at all. The only differences are:
> > * it gets rid of n-m icon in the systray (duh)
> [was incomplete]
> * "network settings" deep in the control panel will say the networking on
> this system is not compatible
> Since n-m breaks actually working software (udev, ifupdown) for non-obscure
> uses (connecting a phone via USB, bridged setups, non-basic VPNs, etc), a
> desktop environment hard-depending on it is bad, and this really needs to
> be a Recommends: relationship instead.
> N-M compared to ifupdown:
> * makes things easier for new users (good! especially in a default install)
> * is said to make wifi easier (when it works...)
> And downsides:
> * breaks usb0 completely (keeps raising and lowering the interface in a
> loop, no apparent way to tell it to keep its grubby hands away)
> * breaks a load of complex setups
> "Breaks unrelated software" on the system is a RC severity, and there's no
> way one can say a windowing environment is related to core networking.
> Thus, I'd say, #542095 needs to be upgraded -- and changing Depends: to
> Recommends: is a non-intrusive fix. It will cause n-m to be installed
> unless explicitely refused, just like you want it to be.
> On the other hand, breaking such setups is not a RC bug in n-m. Like any
> non-core package, there is no requirement for it to be universal:
> * not working with complex setups is at most wishlist
> * breaking USB networking by flipping the interface is normal
> It's just gnome-meta hard-depending on it what's wrong.
First of all I'm not a DD but just a Maintainer of 2 packages and a long time user.
Since I fled away from KDE and felt into Gnome in Debian, I'm using it without N-M installed. It is only a matter of dpkg -force-depends -P two packages every time aptitude "corrects" my system when I install something, and I must say I'm more than happy by not having N-M: nothing messes with my network configuration (which is non-standard) and also users (my wife, or even myself using my normal account) can not disable networking nor break it.
I have not tried Evolution (I use kmail even in Gnome and my wife uses Icedove) but I can say that Pidgin works better without N-M than with it.
Regards (and thanks for all the time you spend that makes Debian my distro of choice)
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