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Re: On init in Debian

On Thursday, March 22, 2012 19:07:43, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 23:02 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le jeudi 22 mars 2012 à 16:47 +0100, Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > > A few people that would have to be expert in all the areas that systemd
> > > implements?  There are a lot of knobs in the Debian sysv initscripts,
> > > which are there for a reason that has been determined by experts of
> > > the corresponding area during the past couple of decades. And now we'd
> > > replace that with just one software which hasn't been contributed to by
> > > all the experts that know what knobs are needed?
> > 
> > Yeah, sure. We can keep a pile of buggy software with hundreds of hacks
> > working around the bugs, giving jobs to ourselves, call ourselves
> > experts while still increasing the complexity of the system in order to
> > remain being the ones with expertise.
> Speaking about buggy software: Today the libpcre3 update broke a lot of
> functions on my computer, including start of gdm3. And since I'm using
> the network manager for ethernet (some stuff does not work without it),
> it was not started while in the console, i.e. no network connection.
> Trying to edit /etc/network/interfaces (yes I knew which file to edit)
> and uncomment the static IP address setting with emacs it failed too.
> Fortunately nano worked, an I could do the changes to enable ethernet to
> upgrade the buggy libpcre3 by the NMUed one. This is a true story (maybe
> some of you have been hit by this bug too), and it tells the if you are
> not in X windows mode no network.

've likewise run into this problem several times over the past couple of 
years.  One thing I can recommend trying is switching from network-manager to 
wicd, because besides the GUI clients wicd also has a text-based 'wicd-curses' 
client avaiable which comes in handy for just these kinds of issues.  I've 
been much happier since.  [network-manager might have a way to work with it at 
the console, but I had several other reasons I wanted to get rid of it.]
> Please, don't make things unbearably complicated in case something
> breaks!!! Network *should* work also in console mode... Looking forward
> to the which nasty bugs in the future are caused by systemd/upstart!

The above case where I'm wondering about how systemd would handle it, because 
it sounds like systemd might see that gdm/X failed to start and would try to 
start it again repeatedly to no avail.  [I have not yet tried systemd to test 
for this kind of behavior -- if someone knows how systemd would behave in this 
case I'd be interested to know.]

  -- Chris

Chris Knadle

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