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Re: Flaming as a way to reach technical quality? No! (was: network-manager as default? No! (was: Bits from the Release Team - Kicking off Wheezy))

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 00:00:01 -0700
Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote:

> > There was a way "User can do anything", the way was replaced by the way
> > "User can do something in list". Obviously that this action has been
> > done for stupid users.
> Yes, a user can do anything with ifconfig if his time has no value.  I am
> happily using network manager on my laptop, because unlike ifconfig it's
> easy to configure for use on new wireless networks.
> I am not happy that network manager bypasses ifconfig to do this; I would
> have much preferred a daemon that could properly integrate with the existing
> infrastructure we had.  But neither that, nor you calling me a stupid user,
> is much motivation for me to go back to the pain of managing wireless
> connections via ifupdown.

I wouldn't go back to wireless via ifupdown either, I'd use wicd
because I've had my share of problems with network-manager. The real
issue, for me, is that I don't want to go to the pain of managing USB
networking connections via a daemon which is predicated on managing
wireless connections and/or complex bridging and VPN requirements.

There needs to be a simple tool with few dependencies and there needs
to be a complex solution with all the power that some users need. One
tool does not suit all here. It's not just about daemon vs GUI frontend
or whether to use DBus or Python - it's about having two or more tools
which work together instead of one simple tool which gets side-stepped
by a more complex tool because of a poor design.


Neil Williams

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