Re: Debian as open project
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 07:45:30PM +0100, Luk Claes wrote:
>> Unfortunately Debian does not seem to be able to also have real
>> constructive discussion about complex issues on the lists. So for these
>> issues we usually have real discussions on IRC, real life, phone or
>> private mail. The final result of these discussions is normally also on
>> the lists as proposals or announcements.
> First of all an objection to the basic principle: the fact that the
> project "does not seem" to be able to have constructive discussion is
> not an argument for not having them. I believe that given your role you
> should show *how* to have such (public) constructive discussions, using
> all mean necessaries, instead of avoid trying.
Sorry, but trying to have a constructive discussion in between
complaints, hijack scenarios and ill informed suggestions does not look
very tempting to me and quite frankly I don't know how to make such a
> But quite obviously, the time lag between the private discussion and the
> disclosure is problematic. Have it long and you risk upsetting people
> when it is discovered that the private discussion has not been disclosed
> (this thread is an example); have it short (ideally 0) and people will
> be happy. If there is some reason not to disclose the actual outcome
> yet, just tell people that something is being done, by whom, and
> how. Communicate even if it only for a ping and less people will get
> upset: it will take anyhow less time than having to fight, later on, in
> threads like this.
Sorry, but I cannot disclose what is told to me in private.
> Heck, during the past months I know that you (again, as in DPL+2IC) have
> been doing stuff, quite a lot of very good stuff in fact, but nobody
> knows that, beside who has spoken to you via some private media (I'm one
> of them).
> That's not annoying, it's just a pity.
It is annoying, though as said above things told to me in private are
not getting disclosed on the lists. Unfortunately that means almost
every DPL contact.