On Thu, Dec 03, 2009 at 07:45:30PM +0100, Luk Claes wrote:
> Unfortunately Debian does not seem to be able to also have real
> constructive discussion about complex issues on the lists. So for these
> issues we usually have real discussions on IRC, real life, phone or
> private mail. The final result of these discussions is normally also on
> the lists as proposals or announcements.
Quite frankly, I think your (as in DPL+2IC) way of proceeding in this
and similar project issues is well-intended, but badly implemented.
First of all an objection to the basic principle: the fact that the
project "does not seem" to be able to have constructive discussion is
not an argument for not having them. I believe that given your role you
should show *how* to have such (public) constructive discussions, using
all mean necessaries, instead of avoid trying.
Then the main objection/suggestion on the implementation. I believe we
all agree that several mailing list conflicts can be more easily solved
on IRC, real life, phone, or other private exchanges; no doubt. Also, as
you point out, there is nothing bad in that *if* later on a summary of
the discussion is sent to the public forum.
But quite obviously, the time lag between the private discussion and the
disclosure is problematic. Have it long and you risk upsetting people
when it is discovered that the private discussion has not been disclosed
(this thread is an example); have it short (ideally 0) and people will
be happy. If there is some reason not to disclose the actual outcome
yet, just tell people that something is being done, by whom, and
how. Communicate even if it only for a ping and less people will get
upset: it will take anyhow less time than having to fight, later on, in
threads like this.
In essence, you know that Debian has the myth of secret cabals
everywhere: you should dispel the myth instead of nourishing it.
Heck, during the past months I know that you (again, as in DPL+2IC) have
been doing stuff, quite a lot of very good stuff in fact, but nobody
knows that, beside who has spoken to you via some private media (I'm one
of them).
That's not annoying, it's just a pity.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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