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Re: Consistent formating long descriptions as input data



On Thu, Apr 23 2009, Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>
>>        While I can't speak for the policy team (I have not been
>> re-delegated yet), I suspect the answer might be to get a working
>> implementation out in the wild (it does not have to be packages.d.o or
>> anything official -- even a standalone software that takes the output
>> from grep-dctrl or parses a Packages file will suffice). This will
>> allow us to see what changes to policy might be needed, if any, for
>> package descriptions.
>
> Would you consider the tasks pages I announced yesterday [1] as such
> an implementation.

        Sure. It would be great to have another implementation, perhaps
 one that people can play with (something that, for example, one can
 pipe the output of a grep-dctrl command to, and get an html snippet
 from (hey, that can then be packaged as an ikiwiki plugin).

        But the task pages should count as an implementation.
>
> I tried to detect some examples which need some changes.  You might
> like to have a look at my "Debugging Blend":
>
>    http://blends.debian.net/debug/tasks
>
> Some issues are mentioned there - I intend to add some better
> documentation if needed but some issues become clear.

        Thanks. Once you are through, perhaps some  directives for long
 description policy can be derived from that.

>   1. The preprocessing you have to do for markdown is basically
>      the same I did for turning description text into html
>      programmatically myself.  There is no real benefit if your
>      main target is only HTML - however, other output formats
>      might benefit from using the preprocessing + markup step.

>   2. Markdown is probably better in detecting second level lists
>      thank I would have done it programmatically - so here is
>      a benefit.  On the other hand there are some strange false
>      positives for second level lists.

        These should be something we can look at to provide a policy
 recommendation so these false positives can be reduced. 

>   3. If we really are doing preprocessing it would be cheap to
>      use 's/\so\s/ * /' and even this marker might be detected
>      as list marker.  This would be perfectly in contrast to my
>      initial suggestion - but consequent if you prefer
>      preprocessing anyway.  BTW, I even detected non-ASCII
>      bullets in the burn package and because it is QA maintained
>      anyway I took the chance to change this while fixing bug
>      #517793.  I think we should catch things like this quite
>      quickly because even apt-cache show failed to disply
>      the description of burn correctly and so I've though
>      fixing the problem myself instead of adding another bug
>      to a QA maintained package seems reasonable.

        I like the idea of  's/^(\s*)o\s+/$1* /' (to preserve the leading
 indentation, in case this was a second level item) as a preprocessing
 step in the interim, in the long term this usage should go down as
 policy starts to deprecate it.

>   4. I expect more not yet detected needs for preprocessing.

        Thanks for working on this.

>   5. I expect the lintian checks for the markdown format rather
>      complicated because there is a lot more freedom in the
>      format (which might be an advantage for the editors) and
>      some valid markdown input might be successfully rendered
>      but into something which conflicts the intention of the
>      author.  Compared to my suggestion of formating the
>      long descriptions according to stricter rules this adds
>      another level of complecity while the lintien checks
>      which would be needed for my suggestions would have been
>      really cheap.  I'd consider this as a disadvantage.


> I might note that I'm not happy that in the case of pure and
> simple ASCII output of long descriptions as it is done by current
> tools more or less we will have a rendering which does not fit my
> taste at all - but I accept that I probably belong to a minority
> and if markdown is widely accepted it leads to my initial goal
> (tasks pages) as well.

        manoj
-- 
Hartley's First Law: You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get
him to float on his back, you've got something.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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